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what's up guys ryan sprague here

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are you an artist graphic designer or

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just looking for an opportunity to

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stretch your right brain somewhere in

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the skies has partnered with our

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merchandising company

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t-public.com for the ultimate somewhere

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in the skies

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fan art contest running from april 1st

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to april 30th

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we'll be taking submissions for your

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design to be featured

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in the summer in the sky store that's

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right your art will be

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on sale in our official tea public store

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and available in all different items

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from t-shirts sweatshirts tank tops

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stickers buttons mugs

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and everything in between you'll also

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receive half the commission on every

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order of your design

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and receive a gift box of items with

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your design

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compliments of teapublic.com there are

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literally

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no limitations on how you choose to

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design

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the only rule is that it must stay

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somewhere in the skies with ryan sprague

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somewhere in the design the top three

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designs as

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voted by t public and myself will then

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be presented for a public vote

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on may 1st on the summer on the skies

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twitter account

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and the summer in the skies facebook

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group where you can cast your vote

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for the winner second and third place

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winners will receive a special gift from

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me as well

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to enter submit your high resolution

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design

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as an attachment to ryan.sprague51

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gmail.com again submissions must be

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received no later

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than 11 59 pm est on april 30th

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i'm really looking forward to seeing

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your artistic abilities

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and interpretations of what the show

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means to you

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and i can't wait to have your exclusive

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design in the official summer in the

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skies store

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for questions or to discuss further

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don't be afraid to reach out on twitter

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facebook or at ryan.spread51 at

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gmail.com thank you for your continued

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support

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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[Music]

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welcome everyone to somewhere in the

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skies i am your host

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ryan sprague and today we are

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celebrating the

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30th anniversary of a i wouldn't say

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famous but probably infamous ufo case

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out of canada somewhere we don't hear a

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lot of cases

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out of uh we often look at this from

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very western united states eyes but

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this is one of the seminal cases in

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canada

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infamous like i said for many reasons

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which we are going to dive into

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tonight this is the carp guardian

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ufo case and with me today is ufo

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researcher

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and author ian ian thank you so much for

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joining me on summer in the skies

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brother

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hey thanks for having me this is great

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yeah this is gonna be fun man i mean

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the first i ever heard about this case i

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wouldn't even say the case

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the video was on one of those you know

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fox specials back in the 90s with

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best video evidence of ufos and there it

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was the guardian video

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and it it scared me when i was a kid man

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i remember being like wow

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this is one of the the best ufo videos

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i've seen in a long time

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kind of because you have to use your

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imagination of what's actually in that

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video but um

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i'm really getting ahead of ourselves

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here i do want to talk to you all about

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this new documentary that you're

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featured in ufo town on the cbc in

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canada

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um and the entire carp ontario

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ufo case but before we do that i have to

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get the origin story

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what is your peter parker moment of uh

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getting into this ufos um

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being a paranormal and ufo researcher

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yeah give us the origin story if you

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don't mind

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um well my parents are big enablers like

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i said it goes back to my parents my

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my mom um loves horror movies um she

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loved ghost stories all that kind of

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stuff

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my parents are both from the east coast

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of canada nova scotia which is really

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really rich

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in folklore ghost stories everyone's got

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a ghost story out there and they all

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swear that they're absolutely true

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um so my mom was just the really the

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really strong paranormal supernatural

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influence and my father

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um was constable in the rcmp and

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his parents were both in the military so

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it was very much a you got the military

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sort of the

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law enforcement side then you got my

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mom's side with ghost stories in the

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supernatural

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and um as i'm growing up as i'm a

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teenager in the 90s what's the tv show

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that's really popular it's the x-files

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so it was just it was like a tv show

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that was made for me you know it was

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just

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the combination of these interests

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ghosts ufos unsolved mysteries

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um combined with this law enforcement

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element where it's like

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if you had a government body to

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investigate these things what would it

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look like what would they what would

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they actually

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do on a day-by-day case-by-case basis so

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for me

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that just um that was something that i

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always wanted to do i was really just

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looking for a case

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that i could investigate myself and as

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you say a lot of these things don't tend

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to happen too much in canada i've read

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so many books on ufos i've watched so

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many tv shows and documentaries

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and all of these things were always

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happening elsewhere you know

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and then one night i'm watching unsolved

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mysteries in the early 90s

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and there's this as you said this really

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spooky videotape

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um i mean let's talk about it i mean the

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the reason why the guardian tape is so

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spooky

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is because most ufo um photos and videos

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are of a light in the sky

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this is on the ground and it's big and

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it's in the dark and then you've got

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these four flares on the other side so

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it's

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of the sighting is unusual because this

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came via a

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a videotape that was sent anonymously to

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investigators by this person who's

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calling himself guardian so

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um it just felt like um

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it just felt like this bolt from the sky

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that said this is this is something that

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you have to look into and when i

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realized it was only a few hours from my

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house

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um like i said just it just felt like it

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was a real seminal moment in my life

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this was something that i have to look

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into even though obviously there are

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already other investigators looking into

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it i'm thinking

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um i'm gonna go check it out myself you

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know it's uh

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it was a big moment for me and that's

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what it was it was my my parents

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and then that night of that unsolved

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mysteries episode that's cool man again

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like you say

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when when these things happen in your

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own backyard

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like you have to just take advantage of

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that and you did i remember in the

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documentary

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that we're gonna talk about uh you

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getting out there in your trench coat

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just

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like mulder which um i i know exactly

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how you feel we all have those

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those mulder moments as ufo researchers

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of

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oh my god like we're actually doing what

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we saw play out

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on television uh in some respects um and

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i do want to get your opinion on x-files

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later on

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in the conversation but i guess

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rewinding

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back to the guardian case now

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your introduction was the unsolved

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mysteries uh mine was this thing on fox

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back in the 90s

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but maybe give us paint us a picture i

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know um

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you know there's some discrepancy

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between 1989

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and what was it 1991 that kind of

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culminate the entire guardian

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thing so would you mind kind of walking

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us through those first moments of when

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guardian

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came around um which investigators were

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given

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these cryptic materials as you said and

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uh yeah maybe give us a little overview

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of what

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guardian is yeah certainly um guardian

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first

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sort of came into the public prominence

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among ufo investigators in 1989

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and he sent out i think it was like a

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two-page sheet report that was

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describing a

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crash retrieval operation in the um

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carp west carlton area of eastern

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ontario

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and accompanying this this report was a

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um photograph of what was supposed to be

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an alien

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which looks very much like a guy in a

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mask

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in a field with sort of a tall grass and

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in the foreground

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not not very convincing and i believe

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some of the

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it was either queue foreign or mufon

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investigator newfound ontario

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investigators canadian investigators

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send someone up to the area and i think

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one or two people reported seeing a

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light in the sky

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around the time that the um the guardian

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described

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when the events were supposed to have

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taken place but they pretty much wrote

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it off as a hoax no one else saw

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anything

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the report talked about military

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vehicles coming in to remove this ufo

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in this area and there was no evidence

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of any kind of military activity or

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roads being constructed to get into the

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swamp to access this thing much less

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retrieve it and move it out no flatbed

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trucks or anything

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so the there wasn't a lot to the 1989

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um material um it was also sort of

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very right-wing conspiracy stuff like it

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was um

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i think i believe chris rutkowski got

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some of it and i think he had mentioned

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before that

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the the guardians manifesto i guess for

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lack of a better term

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um was very similar to white supremacist

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literature around the same time so i

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think um

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uh there was he just basically written

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off like a crackpot just your hardcore

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conspiracies who's

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who's got these beliefs and he's also

285
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:01,120
roping in some some racism there as well

286
00:10:05,509 --> 00:10:02,880
too which which happens with a lot of uh

287
00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:05,519
of the right-wing conspiracies um and

288
00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:07,040
yeah so nothing nothing happened they

289
00:10:09,750 --> 00:10:08,160
didn't really make anything from it

290
00:10:13,190 --> 00:10:09,760
there wasn't really anything to see

291
00:10:15,110 --> 00:10:13,200
uh two years later in 1991 um

292
00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:15,120
guardian came back again with more

293
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:17,040
material um this time he's got what he

294
00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:18,000
says our dnd

295
00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:20,320
department of national defense documents

296
00:10:24,150 --> 00:10:22,320
um with your classic blacked out

297
00:10:25,590 --> 00:10:24,160
censored materials like you probably saw

298
00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:25,600
in a movie because that's not actually

299
00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:27,200
what censored documents in canada look

300
00:10:29,430 --> 00:10:27,839
like

301
00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:29,440
but that's what guardian thinks they

302
00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:32,640
look like um including all kinds of

303
00:10:35,350 --> 00:10:34,320
other wacky stuff there was diagrams

304
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:35,360
explaining

305
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:39,200
how um uh ufos avoid our radar

306
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:40,880
and also this is the part that's just

307
00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:43,120
sort of bonkers like why they

308
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:44,560
they they need to have flares in a

309
00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:46,560
triangular formation in order to land

310
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:48,720
why an alien spacecraft who is able to

311
00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:50,480
technology that they can fly this great

312
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:52,000
distance but they need road flares in

313
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:53,519
order to land on the ground

314
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:54,880
but it's there in his documents

315
00:10:59,110 --> 00:10:57,519
outlining it and he'd also included a

316
00:11:01,509 --> 00:10:59,120
series of playing cards

317
00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:01,519
um with all kinds of ramblings on them

318
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:02,880
there's actually references to like

319
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:03,920
richard dodie

320
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,920
um other ufo whistleblowers and how

321
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:07,279
they're all basically false

322
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:09,600
only the guardian knows that was what

323
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:10,959
was written on them so

324
00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:13,760
it's um it was a real uh real can of

325
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:14,320
worms

326
00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:16,399
it was a lot of really wacky material

327
00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:17,279
and again they probably would have

328
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,880
dismissed it again but this time he

329
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:20,320
included a videotape

330
00:11:23,910 --> 00:11:22,800
and um the videotape um had a label on

331
00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:23,920
it that said guardian

332
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:27,440
with a thumbprint and um this video tape

333
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:28,720
this package of material was sent to

334
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:30,320
various investigators chris frakowski

335
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:31,040
got some

336
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:37,839
um the

337
00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:39,920
the tapes were were sometimes sort of

338
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:41,360
different um

339
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:42,800
some people only got a couple minutes of

340
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:44,720
footage some people got like 10 or 15

341
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,360
minutes

342
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:47,680
i think bob got some of the longer stuff

343
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,680
but his tape had no audio track

344
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:51,600
so weird little things like that i don't

345
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:52,800
know if it was stuff that was done on

346
00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:53,600
purpose

347
00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:55,200
but no one really believed that they got

348
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:57,040
like a first generation quality of this

349
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:57,440
tape

350
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:58,720
the footage even as you can see in

351
00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:00,720
unsolved mysteries was um

352
00:12:03,829 --> 00:12:02,560
it wasn't great quality you know not to

353
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:03,839
mention you shoot in at night

354
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:06,720
you know so it's uh it it adds to the

355
00:12:09,910 --> 00:12:08,240
mystique it makes it spookier but also

356
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:09,920
makes it harder to identify exactly what

357
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:11,360
it is

358
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,240
yeah exactly and again i mean that's the

359
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:16,639
problem we run into with any ufo

360
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:18,320
investigation when it comes to

361
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:20,880
videos or photos especially today oh wow

362
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:22,399
you know like something like this

363
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:24,000
today like this is why like you haven't

364
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:25,519
seen a big ufo case in

365
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:27,680
years you know i mean i keep a toe in

366
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:29,120
the in the industry i'm not active as

367
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:30,560
more anymore as an investigator but

368
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,839
i like to keep track of what the big

369
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:33,600
cases are and there just aren't any i

370
00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:34,720
remember the last time that everyone was

371
00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:36,000
really excited about something where

372
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:38,000
these so-called roswell slides

373
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:40,079
which turned out to be a hoax you know

374
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:41,040
big surprise

375
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:43,680
right so it's um and ever again i mean

376
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:45,279
like oh the navy the us navy is

377
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,880
releasing uh reports

378
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:48,079
they're still interested in your votes

379
00:12:50,949 --> 00:12:49,760
again it's interesting stuff but again

380
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:50,959
it hasn't really amounted to anything

381
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:52,639
it's provocative it doesn't prove

382
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:53,839
anything it's uh

383
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:56,560
it keeps the um it keeps the subject

384
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,000
alive in the hearts and minds of people

385
00:13:03,030 --> 00:12:59,600
who are interested in that

386
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:03,040
but for me um going back to discovering

387
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,800
guardian in the early 90s

388
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:06,160
it was it was like the second

389
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:07,920
renaissance of ufology you know you had

390
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:10,160
the or the first was like the 1940s when

391
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:11,839
like flying saucers that becomes the

392
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,600
terminology raw as well

393
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,680
and then for me the second renaissance

394
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:17,519
was the 90s because you had

395
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:19,920
um the alien autopsy tapes you had the

396
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:21,760
50th anniversary of the roswell incident

397
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:23,360
you had the x-files you had fire in the

398
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,279
sky independence day

399
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:27,440
ufos and aliens had never been more on

400
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:28,720
the pop culture than they were in the

401
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:29,440
90s

402
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:31,839
um generated by by real cases too but

403
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:32,480
also in

404
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:35,200
entertainment and media so it was just i

405
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:36,800
was in the right place at the right time

406
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:38,800
raised by the right parents to be in

407
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:40,079
this place to

408
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:43,040
um try and make my mark on this case

409
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:43,440
that

410
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:45,040
fortunately was just a couple hours away

411
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:46,800
and my mom was willing to let him lend

412
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:47,680
me her car

413
00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:50,800
so really go into a ditch i talked about

414
00:13:53,189 --> 00:13:52,160
i touched on that lately and i've had a

415
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:53,199
few people uh

416
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:54,800
email me since then they said i gotta

417
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:56,320
hear the story about the car and the

418
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:56,959
ditch and

419
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:58,959
uh uh later on if you want to hear that

420
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,720
it's not ufo related but it actually it

421
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:02,399
is pretty funny and relates to

422
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:04,160
to the to the town and the attitude of

423
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,600
the town because

424
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,959
when the car won the ditch i was like my

425
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:08,320
mom's going to kill me what are we going

426
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:09,839
to do not to mention the investigation

427
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:11,680
is done

428
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:14,399
right right the investigation over mom's

429
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,120
car

430
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:17,519
has been totaled yeah i get it man but

431
00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:18,320
um

432
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:21,519
well let's i guess okay so

433
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:24,480
a lot of these groups i know like mufon

434
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:25,680
in ontario and

435
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,240
and everything um they were very

436
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:30,000
hesitant to uh

437
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:32,399
to really pursue this thing kind of from

438
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:34,079
the start i mean a lot of people were

439
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:34,880
like

440
00:14:42,790 --> 00:14:39,279
it's clearly

441
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:42,800
meant to um muddy the waters um maybe

442
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,160
it's a hoax perpetrated by people to

443
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:48,240
to either make fun of all these ufo

444
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:49,839
people out there or

445
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:52,720
legitimately maybe something did happen

446
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:53,040
but

447
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:56,399
um the rcmp did get involved with this

448
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:57,519
am i correct

449
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,880
assuming that can you tell us a little

450
00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:01,040
about that because again yeah hoax is

451
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,760
one thing but

452
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,839
when you know law enforcement gets

453
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,600
involved that's a whole other story so

454
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:08,320
what was kind of their peripheral uh i

455
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:08,720
guess

456
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:11,600
investigation into this whole thing uh

457
00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:13,120
well yeah i mean as you as you say i

458
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:14,800
mean like the rcmp does not investigate

459
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:16,880
ufos like there are no canadian x-files

460
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:17,760
unfortunately or else

461
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,120
that's where i'd be working today you

462
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:21,440
know so uh my father over and over again

463
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:22,880
said no you have to get a real job there

464
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:23,279
are no

465
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:25,199
rcmpx files you're gonna have to go to

466
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:26,880
law school you know or you know you're

467
00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:27,920
gonna have to do something

468
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,639
so um the rcmp got involved in the

469
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:32,320
guardian case because

470
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:34,880
um it was described in the uh in their

471
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:35,680
documents

472
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:37,839
again you can you can request the uh

473
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:39,519
from access to information the the case

474
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:40,720
files on this

475
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:41,839
or you used to be able to i think it's

476
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:43,759
been archived now but you can but i did

477
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:44,320
that's how i

478
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:45,360
that's how that was sort of like my

479
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,959
golden ticket to the investigation was

480
00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:48,720
the fact that i was able to get

481
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:51,759
the constables um full case files like

482
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,800
censored of course

483
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:54,720
but everything his notes his interviews

484
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:56,480
his photographs everything

485
00:16:01,110 --> 00:15:59,920
um they got involved because um

486
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:01,120
as you see in the unseld mysteries

487
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:02,959
broadcast after the guardian event

488
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:04,399
supposedly took place

489
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:06,720
um there was a helicopter came over the

490
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:07,440
area after the

491
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,839
the ufo departed um the classic black

492
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:11,279
spooky helicopter black unmarked

493
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:12,320
helicopter

494
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,519
um flying low in the area and it turned

495
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:17,519
out when uh when we were investigating

496
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:17,920
that

497
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:20,880
um low-flying helicopters in the area

498
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:22,240
have been reported by a number of people

499
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:24,000
um even people who hadn't seen

500
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:26,720
or had any interest in in the ufo case

501
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,000
um

502
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:30,000
the area is on a flight path and there

503
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:31,440
is a military base nearby

504
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:32,959
but these were people saying that these

505
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:34,959
helicopters were flying really low

506
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,800
um they reported something reportedly

507
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:38,160
damaged their property damage to their

508
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:38,720
roofs

509
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,320
damage to fields as long as they would

510
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:42,639
land in fields to perform maneuvers

511
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:45,680
according to some people um

512
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:48,839
so the someone um involved in the case

513
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:51,839
um made a complaint to the rcmp

514
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:54,079
under the uh some sort of act basically

515
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:55,279
um

516
00:16:59,110 --> 00:16:56,800
these helicopters are they have to fly

517
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:59,120
above like 500 feet or a thousand feet

518
00:17:01,990 --> 00:16:59,920
or something

519
00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:02,000
so that was that was largely how the

520
00:17:05,669 --> 00:17:04,079
rcmp became came to be involved and

521
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,679
because the low-flying helicopters

522
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:07,360
aspect was so wrapped up in the guardian

523
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:07,919
case

524
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:09,280
the constable ended up sort of

525
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:11,600
inadvertently investigating the ufo case

526
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:12,959
as well even though it wasn't really his

527
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,559
mandate but the two were so

528
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:16,640
wrapped up together it was like it was

529
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:17,679
about as close as you were going to get

530
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:18,720
to a canadian

531
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,600
rcmpx file so he investigated everyone

532
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:23,600
bob exceller was involved for completely

533
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:24,959
other reasons

534
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,120
bob uh bob um likes to work with um

535
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:31,280
uh government people for for two reasons

536
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:32,160
one

537
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:35,840
um it's it's a it's a ego thing you know

538
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:36,400
look at me

539
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:37,840
i'm this investigator i'm working with

540
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:39,520
my buddies here in the nsa

541
00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:42,160
or in the rcmp we're working together

542
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:43,120
and he also

543
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,480
um he also thinks that uh if yeah he

544
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:47,919
helps them they'll they'll help him you

545
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:49,039
know so it's like oh if i do this for

546
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:50,480
you you'll give me your secret

547
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:53,039
you know classified uh urc you know uh

548
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:54,160
ufo files

549
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:55,520
but there aren't any you know so i mean

550
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:57,039
he thinks he's he's like he's gonna get

551
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:58,400
into them and they're gonna reveal other

552
00:18:02,310 --> 00:17:59,760
secrets

553
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:02,320
in this case there was a third reason

554
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:02,960
why

555
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:05,280
bob um sort of insinuated himself with

556
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:06,480
the rcmp

557
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:08,720
and because guardian had sent out these

558
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,880
dnd documents that were very clearly

559
00:18:15,029 --> 00:18:12,640
forgeries

560
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:15,039
bob's thinking was well this guy broke

561
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:16,160
the law you know he's

562
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:17,919
forged government documents you should

563
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:19,440
charge him under this act

564
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:22,080
and that'll scare him into confessing so

565
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,440
and the rcmp was like yeah we're not

566
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:25,200
doing that

567
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:26,640
you know not to mention at the behest of

568
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:28,400
this person from the united states

569
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:29,760
coming in and telling them how to do

570
00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:30,400
their job

571
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:32,480
right right there's all kinds of reasons

572
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:33,760
why but i mean it's right there in his

573
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:35,360
in his case notes that he just

574
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:37,760
you know not not very meanly but that he

575
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:39,520
you know that he basically questioned

576
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:41,520
um bob axler's background and his

577
00:18:44,789 --> 00:18:42,960
motivations for

578
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:44,799
for what he's doing you know so it

579
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,320
really says something that once you get

580
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:48,160
outside of the field of ufology

581
00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:49,600
and people who like each other or don't

582
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:50,960
like each other and they've got opinions

583
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,799
about bob whether they're valid or not

584
00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:54,480
you've got this guy this rcmp console he

585
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:56,640
doesn't care what about ufology or much

586
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,799
less ufo investigators or mufon or

587
00:19:01,430 --> 00:18:59,600
anything

588
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:01,440
um and he has the exact same opinion of

589
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:03,039
bob so i mean what does that say

590
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:06,480
it's just um again uh bob passed away

591
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:07,679
last year i don't i don't want to speak

592
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:08,720
ill of the dead but i mean

593
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:11,360
in a historical context this is this is

594
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:12,799
what happened i mean this is the story

595
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,000
it's on the record

596
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:16,160
um i worked with bob you know like i

597
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,080
knew him um and i stopped working with

598
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:20,160
him for a reason so again it's uh

599
00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:23,600
i i try to be very um i'm gonna say

600
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:25,280
clinical about it but i guess about

601
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:27,120
fair you know try to move remove emotion

602
00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:28,960
from it and how i felt and just get back

603
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:30,799
to the investigation because that was

604
00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:33,120
how i got involved so again it's just

605
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:35,360
like my my issues aside with bob i mean

606
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:36,320
he did

607
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,400
um cast a lot of light on he had the tv

608
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:40,160
contacts that's how he was able to get

609
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:41,840
unsold mysteries involved but he also

610
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:43,679
really wanted to be involved sometimes

611
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:45,120
there is just one investigator who's

612
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:45,520
doing

613
00:19:50,470 --> 00:19:48,559
they just get territorial and they just

614
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:50,480
they only want to be that person who's

615
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:51,600
involved so if you're going to talk to

616
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:52,720
someone if the media's going to talk to

617
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:54,400
someone it has to be me they want to be

618
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:55,679
the face of this thing i'm the one

619
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,799
that's going to write the book i'm the

620
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,080
one that's going to

621
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,480
um i won't even say monetize it although

622
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:01,919
sometimes they do make money from it i

623
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:02,640
mean

624
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:05,120
bob was selling the guardian tape for 35

625
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:07,280
bucks a pop out of ufo magazine you know

626
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:08,799
and of course it's not his property

627
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:10,000
right i mean

628
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:11,520
he did not take ownership of this

629
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:13,440
videotape but um

630
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,799
he uh he had his own little

631
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:17,120
investigation uh obviously uh his own

632
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:18,640
little tape that he had set up with the

633
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:20,000
guardian footage on it

634
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:21,600
but i mean it didn't take him very long

635
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:23,600
to to package this and start selling it

636
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,640
you know so you know and well ian you

637
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,320
bring up a lot of good points i think

638
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,919
you're right i mean first of all you got

639
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:30,559
this guy

640
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,440
from the united states coming in you

641
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:34,960
know to um

642
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:38,080
you know basically into uh carp and

643
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:41,120
everywhere around there and like

644
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:44,000
taking control of this when clearly

645
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:45,840
there were enough investigators

646
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:48,000
whether through mufon or independently

647
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:50,000
who could look at this case um

648
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:51,679
and might even know some of the

649
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,840
witnesses but i think you're right you

650
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:55,919
know not to speak ill of the dead as bob

651
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:57,520
did pass away but um

652
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:00,640
it's quite clear i think the documentary

653
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:03,919
makes it clear um his involvement with

654
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:05,600
every television

655
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:08,400
uh event that covered this that uh he

656
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:09,520
wanted to be

657
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,960
front and center and you're right there

658
00:21:14,149 --> 00:21:12,720
are certain investigators who kind of

659
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:14,159
hang their hat on that

660
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:16,000
that one case and they want all the

661
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:18,559
attention and in some ways i understand

662
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:19,840
it but in others

663
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:22,880
i i i don't know maybe it's just the

664
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:25,120
the new yorker coming out and meet in me

665
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:27,360
but like if some dude from the us

666
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:29,280
came over there and was like all right

667
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:30,960
i'm in control of this i'm the face of

668
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:32,080
it i would be like

669
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:33,760
get the hell out of here buddy like we

670
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:35,280
got this cover but um

671
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:36,640
well i'll tell you two things about it

672
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:38,320
yeah from from the documentary point of

673
00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:39,600
view this was one of the reasons why i

674
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:41,120
feel the documentary is really good as

675
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:41,679
well

676
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:44,320
um they they weren't out to um to speak

677
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:45,919
ill of anyone whether it was bob or the

678
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,600
witnesses or anyone it's

679
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:49,120
it's a very respectful documentary

680
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,960
because the people who made the ufo town

681
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:52,320
are very respectful people they're

682
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,720
they're

683
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:54,480
really really good when i first met with

684
00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:55,679
him was about a year ago was when we

685
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:57,520
first started this

686
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:59,360
year ago january when we met with them

687
00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:00,559
or when i met with them

688
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:02,000
and the first thing for me was like i

689
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:03,120
want to know what their intentions were

690
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:04,400
with this documentary because if they're

691
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:05,760
going to come out and say this was real

692
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,640
i'm not involved

693
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:08,159
like i'm just even if they're going to

694
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,600
say well maybe it was aliens and they

695
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:11,520
want to be ambiguous i'm not interested

696
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,679
we were very firm with our conclusions

697
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:15,760
um based on this case

698
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:17,520
um and i did not want to be involved in

699
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,760
something like a sort of like uh

700
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:21,679
like some of the fox ufo shows where it

701
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:22,880
was really outlandish where

702
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:24,799
they're chasing guardian down the street

703
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:26,240
and stuff really sensational

704
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:29,200
like um but i found out very very

705
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:31,280
quickly um when i was meeting with um

706
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,080
harriet luke

707
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,880
and nick nick crowe the producers um

708
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:36,000
they're good people

709
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,440
and they had really really good um

710
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:39,360
intentions and

711
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:41,200
i can't consider them friends to this

712
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:42,400
day these aren't just people that i

713
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:43,840
worked with this was

714
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:45,520
this was an experience you know like

715
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,880
this was something that i'm always gonna

716
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:48,480
remember it wasn't just oh it was nice

717
00:22:50,549 --> 00:22:48,720
and

718
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,559
they produced a good product these are

719
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:52,640
good people um

720
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:54,320
they're artists you know like it's it's

721
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:56,400
a beautiful documentary it's beautifully

722
00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:57,039
shot

723
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:59,440
um the tone that they get where they're

724
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:01,120
they're they're picking up the guardian

725
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,159
story that people didn't get after

726
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:03,679
unsolved mysteries people didn't unless

727
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:05,039
you go online you go to find the old

728
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:06,640
muofon reports

729
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:08,159
um no one really knows what happens did

730
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:09,679
they ever find guardian did he ever send

731
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:11,120
anything else like no one really knows

732
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,559
so i feel like what one of the things

733
00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:14,640
that ufo town does really well is

734
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:16,480
it it tells the rest of the story that

735
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:18,080
no one has had for 30 years in the

736
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:18,880
public

737
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:21,440
and then it also gets to explore on a

738
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:22,640
larger level

739
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:24,640
um belief systems why do we believe the

740
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,679
things that we do

741
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,360
um and even guardian you know like even

742
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:29,120
if this was a hoax and i think

743
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,559
it really comes across that we still

744
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:32,960
believe that it was um

745
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,320
why did guardian do the things that he

746
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:36,000
does so it's it's just it opens up all

747
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:37,360
these really cool questions without

748
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:39,039
being really judgmental about it

749
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,320
and and that's what i liked about it

750
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,960
it's not bitter it's not it's not um

751
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:44,400
it's not melodramatic the way that

752
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:45,520
sometimes you see other ufo

753
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:46,559
documentaries

754
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:48,159
it's not um it's not like this

755
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:49,840
documentary version of click bait where

756
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:50,880
you're trying where you're getting

757
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:51,679
something

758
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:53,440
um different than what you think you're

759
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:55,360
getting it's it's just a solid

760
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:56,720
documentary you know and

761
00:23:59,350 --> 00:23:58,320
i'm proud to be a part of it you know

762
00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:59,360
yeah the other thing i was gonna say

763
00:24:02,789 --> 00:24:00,880
about the investigation was oh yeah

764
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:02,799
um when bob came up when you're talking

765
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:04,000
about how he was with the with the

766
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:04,880
canadians

767
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:07,279
go up and check it out when guardian

768
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,799
sent this second batch of stuff

769
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:10,400
like we already knew who guardian was

770
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:12,000
right so we weren't going to waste our

771
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:12,559
time

772
00:24:16,149 --> 00:24:14,559
but bob had got a copy of the tape so he

773
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:16,159
contacts the canadians and says well i'm

774
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:17,200
going to come up i'm going to go check

775
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:19,039
it out maybe we can do it together you

776
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:19,919
guys can help me

777
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:23,360
you can show me around so i think that

778
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:24,559
there might have been some people who

779
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:26,799
are going to go check it out anyway but

780
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:30,159
now that bob was coming up a large group

781
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:30,960
of canadians

782
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:34,080
canadian ufo investigators go up so um

783
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:35,360
one of the things that they that they

784
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:36,720
really noticed again i don't i don't

785
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:38,720
really adhere that that bob was guardian

786
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:40,320
or that bob was more deeply involved it

787
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:41,840
was maybe he was but

788
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:43,360
there's an impression that bob seems to

789
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:45,120
know his way around like he's been there

790
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:47,120
before and there was definitely

791
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:48,799
when when when they were tromping

792
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:50,880
through the the swamp and like

793
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:54,080
mosquito hey like uh no maybe

794
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:55,919
like it's the thaw right it's messy that

795
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:57,200
the bugs are out

796
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:58,640
um they're going through the swamps of

797
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:00,480
like west carleton trying to find this

798
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:01,600
landing site because guardian had

799
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:03,360
included a map of the area in a second

800
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:04,559
batch of material

801
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:06,640
um and the canadians were just tired and

802
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:08,320
like this is stupid like this is a hoax

803
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:09,679
anyway you know so they just

804
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:10,880
most of them peeled off and left they

805
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:12,799
went off to get something to drink and

806
00:25:15,029 --> 00:25:13,279
um

807
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:15,039
they're cracking jokes like oh yeah you

808
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,240
know bob will show up in half an hour

809
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:17,679
and say that he found the landing site

810
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:18,080
right

811
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:19,600
and sure enough you know he came back

812
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,279
hey i found it right and it's like

813
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:22,880
from a tape at night right i mean with

814
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:24,320
no context there's no

815
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:25,760
there's not even really any sense of

816
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:28,080
scale in the in in the video so

817
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:29,520
but he comes back and says hey i found

818
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:30,799
it you know because he found what he

819
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:33,120
thought were irradiated juniper bushes

820
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:35,279
which were just basically bushes that

821
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:36,880
had been you know driven down to the

822
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:38,240
ground from the thaw and probably

823
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:40,159
snowmobiles big snowmobiling in that

824
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:40,880
country

825
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:42,080
but he sees them and he thinks that

826
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:43,760
they've been irradiated you know so i

827
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:45,120
mean that's just immediately

828
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:46,960
that's bob to a t like like he would

829
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,880
just jump to these conclusions and

830
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:50,640
and when you see him on the unsolved

831
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,000
mysteries broadcast he's

832
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:54,080
he's very skeptical of the alien images

833
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:55,039
why would guardian

834
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:57,200
basically taint this great ufo footage

835
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,120
with these aliens that could be

836
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:01,120
it's just someone in a mask but then two

837
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:03,120
seconds later in his in his video that

838
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:04,799
he's selling for 30 bucks

839
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,480
he's come around he says oh the aliens

840
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:07,919
actually might be real because it

841
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:09,600
appears that they're blinking between

842
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:10,400
frames

843
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:13,200
it's like well bob they're stills like

844
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:14,640
how do you know that they're not just

845
00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:16,080
you know changing the eyes or anything i

846
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:17,679
mean it's still very like me my friend

847
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:19,200
me and my teenage friend faked those

848
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:19,919
photos

849
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:22,080
in a farmer's field with i was wearing a

850
00:26:25,269 --> 00:26:23,520
full black bodysuit

851
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:25,279
and white latex gloves and a white

852
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:26,720
garbage background with with uh

853
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,480
with a construction paper eyes of

854
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,000
various diameters

855
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,840
so they would look like blinking and it

856
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:33,360
took two seconds you know like it was

857
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:33,760
just

858
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:36,159
it didn't it didn't take any effort um

859
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:37,360
but that but that was something like

860
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:39,039
with bobby would say this is really

861
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:40,880
convincing based on like little to no

862
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:43,120
evidence he would just assume

863
00:26:47,029 --> 00:26:45,919
the grand thing like oh must be aliens

864
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:47,039
when there's all these other

865
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:50,080
more likely possibilities um

866
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:51,440
it was his reasoning it was just his

867
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,200
reasoning and my mind was flawed as an

868
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:55,200
investigator is what i would say

869
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:58,240
yeah and i think that flaw comes with

870
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,200
uh like you said a want to believe and

871
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:03,840
that often clouds the judgment of many

872
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:05,520
investigators whether it's in the ufo

873
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:07,919
field or you know anything unexplained

874
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:08,320
the

875
00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:11,279
normal supernatural cryptids um that

876
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:11,919
that

877
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,880
trying to separate your beliefs from an

878
00:27:18,789 --> 00:27:16,559
investigation it's hard to do

879
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:18,799
i totally understand why some

880
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:21,919
investigators get caught up in that um

881
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:23,279
it's like a religion you know like you

882
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,559
can't it's just funny because you're

883
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:26,159
dealing with something scientific versus

884
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:27,679
something that's religious which some

885
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:29,440
people would say are opposites

886
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:32,240
but it comes like people feel it's like

887
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:33,600
what do they say when someone has a

888
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:34,799
ghost encounter and they've got nothing

889
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,320
to back up it's just a story well i

890
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:38,320
don't care i know what i saw right they

891
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:38,640
they

892
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:41,840
just like well you know what human

893
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,360
beings and our perceptions you and our

894
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:45,360
five senses are so fallible

895
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:47,200
that there's all kinds of reasons about

896
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:49,039
why what you experience might not be at

897
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,640
all what you think but but we always

898
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:52,320
feel so strongly and i admire that i

899
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:53,760
admire i think our com

900
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:56,720
our passions and and and those things

901
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:57,279
that we

902
00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:59,360
feel are one of our great strengths but

903
00:28:02,070 --> 00:28:00,480
it's like it's a double-edged sword it

904
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:02,080
can also be used against us because then

905
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:03,120
he could be like well it was actually

906
00:28:06,389 --> 00:28:04,559
this this and this but

907
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:06,399
you were you know this is the logical

908
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:08,080
thing so it's hard i mean i don't i

909
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:09,600
don't try to come down too hard on the

910
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:11,440
believers but as an investigator

911
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:13,039
i don't have that luxury of saying yeah

912
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,399
you're right it probably was aliens i

913
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:16,080
have to be skeptical you know so

914
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,080
i always say i started i started in this

915
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:20,000
like a mulder and i became a scully by

916
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:21,200
the end of it you know and

917
00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:22,559
i think that's the reason why that show

918
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:23,919
was so successful that's why they made

919
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:25,679
such good partners mulder said it more

920
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:26,559
often than not

921
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,840
you keep me honest that's what you used

922
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:29,679
to say to scully you know like she wrote

923
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:31,200
he was she always feel like she's

924
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:32,399
driving him up the wall and he's like no

925
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:33,120
no

926
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:34,720
it's the other way i'm doing this to you

927
00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:36,480
you keep me honest in this work you know

928
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:38,559
or else he'd be he'd be like a wacko ufo

929
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:39,360
nut that day

930
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:41,039
it's uh it's the balance it's like all

931
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:42,320
things in life right it's the balance

932
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:42,880
right

933
00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:51,279
um

934
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:54,399
as investigators it's not i i always

935
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:55,440
tell people who

936
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:56,880
want to get involved with ufos and

937
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:58,720
everything i'm like don't go out there

938
00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:00,799
trying to prove that aliens exist

939
00:29:04,870 --> 00:29:02,880
that's not your job like leave that to

940
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:04,880
the scientists leave that too

941
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:07,840
to the many people who have um studied

942
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:09,919
every various scientific field

943
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:12,480
in that realm your job is to try to find

944
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:14,240
a prosaic explanation

945
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:16,799
for what somebody saw you know and when

946
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:18,399
you're left with no other

947
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:21,520
answer then it's still unexplained

948
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:24,399
maybe it's alien or maybe it's a million

949
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,440
other different things

950
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:27,760
and um you know when it comes to the

951
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,039
guardian case

952
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:31,520
um the big thing was okay we've got this

953
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:32,640
video cool

954
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,360
but uh we don't have any witnesses like

955
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:37,440
no one's really coming forward and then

956
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:38,960
you know lo and behold there were

957
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:42,000
certain people who claimed to have seen

958
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:45,039
that craft land in the forest um can you

959
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:47,120
tell us a little about susan gill

960
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:49,679
this woman who was featured in the uh in

961
00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:51,039
the documentary

962
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:53,279
on cbc a little bit about her and her

963
00:29:57,990 --> 00:29:54,720
involvement with all this

964
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:58,000
yeah susan gill was um i mean we didn't

965
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,360
know her well

966
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:00,960
her name wasn't made public originally

967
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:02,640
her she was going by a pseudonym at the

968
00:30:05,669 --> 00:30:03,840
time in terms of the

969
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:05,679
uh the tv shows and stuff i think it was

970
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:07,840
sarah janil was the name she was using

971
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:09,120
but yes her susan gil

972
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:11,600
was was her real name um i believe bob

973
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:14,240
found her she was she lived in the area

974
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:16,640
and um bob was trying to find other

975
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:17,919
witnesses to either to

976
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,640
the guardian event or to other ufo

977
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:22,159
activity in the area

978
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,760
um susan gill is always very interesting

979
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:27,200
because not only did she

980
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:28,640
claim to witness the event but there's

981
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:30,720
also an abduction component to it she

982
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:31,760
claims that she was

983
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:33,919
brought aboard the craft but what's also

984
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:36,080
interesting about the susan gill case

985
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:39,760
um is there's been some disagreement

986
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:41,039
about whether or not

987
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:42,640
her event was actually part of the

988
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:44,480
guardian case or whether or not bob

989
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:46,399
was just trying to take sort of

990
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:47,760
disparate events in the

991
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:49,840
in the area and make them part of the

992
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:51,440
guardian narrative so

993
00:30:55,430 --> 00:30:53,760
um it seems very clear to me that people

994
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:55,440
were seeing stuff in west carleton even

995
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:57,360
before there's newspaper reports of

996
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,480
people seeing

997
00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:00,960
weird entities and and ufo sightings

998
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:01,600
before

999
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:04,799
came out so

1000
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:08,000
um independent of the guardian event so

1001
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,919
people did seem to be seeing something

1002
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:12,000
in that area so

1003
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:13,120
susan could have totally had a

1004
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:14,960
legitimate experience and maybe it

1005
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:16,399
wasn't even connected to guardian but

1006
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:17,279
bob

1007
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,760
either maybe coerced her or suggested to

1008
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:21,120
her that it was

1009
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:23,519
um i had also heard from another

1010
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,720
investigator that

1011
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:26,880
she had actually been writing a novel

1012
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,880
about alien abduction

1013
00:31:31,909 --> 00:31:30,640
and that it wasn't her experience wasn't

1014
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,919
even a real event it was actually a

1015
00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:33,919
fictional thing and then bob was the one

1016
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:35,120
who was trying to make it sound like it

1017
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:36,080
was real so

1018
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,679
it's just again you've gone into a ufo

1019
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:39,200
case it's a hall of mirrors

1020
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,320
um i was never really sure i never spoke

1021
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:44,159
with uh with susan uh

1022
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:45,919
directly myself it was it was more some

1023
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:47,519
of the other canadians and it just

1024
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:48,559
reached a point where

1025
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:50,000
she was not happy with bob she didn't

1026
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:51,360
want to talk to the canadians either she

1027
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:52,960
was just sort of done with it

1028
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,600
but i i think um there was um when bob

1029
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:57,360
was reporting on this and one

1030
00:32:01,430 --> 00:32:00,399
i think was ufo magazine or ufo

1031
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:01,440
something i can't it was one of the

1032
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:03,519
magazines at the time but some of the

1033
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:06,480
the openings had these descriptions um

1034
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:08,559
of of this abduction encounter

1035
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:11,679
and um it turned out that those these

1036
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:13,120
these parts of these at least parts of

1037
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:14,080
these articles

1038
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:17,360
were actually pieces of susan's um

1039
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:19,600
novel or her writing whether it was her

1040
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:20,799
experience or whether it was a fictional

1041
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,760
novel but

1042
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:24,000
um if you look up the newfound ontario

1043
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:25,760
report i believe that there was a point

1044
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:26,480
when

1045
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:28,000
susan was upset with bob and she was

1046
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:29,440
actually going to sign an affidavit

1047
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:30,559
saying that

1048
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:32,320
um she hadn't had this experience the

1049
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:33,760
way that he described it he would

1050
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:34,799
basically

1051
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:37,760
was trying to um buffalo her you know

1052
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:38,960
sort of

1053
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:40,960
make it more part of the guardian event

1054
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:42,159
um and i don't think she actually did

1055
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:43,279
that i think she was just sort of fed up

1056
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:44,799
and frankly i don't blame blamer you've

1057
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:45,120
got

1058
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:46,640
all these strangers coming onto your

1059
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,240
doorstep and they're

1060
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:49,679
they've got different motivations for it

1061
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:51,679
one way or the other um

1062
00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:54,240
but uh it's so hard to say now it's one

1063
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:55,519
of these things where it's like did she

1064
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:57,519
actually have this experience

1065
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:59,120
maybe you know like i mean she seems

1066
00:33:02,389 --> 00:33:00,799
sincere she seems like a nice person

1067
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:02,399
i mean i never actually got the chance

1068
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:04,159
to meet her um her grandson who's

1069
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,679
featured in ufo town he seems like a

1070
00:33:09,909 --> 00:33:07,120
good guy you know like

1071
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:09,919
it's uh uh i believe him you know like

1072
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:11,360
it's uh it was it was very convincing

1073
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,880
this is just a guy who cares about his

1074
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:14,159
grandmother and his grandmother had this

1075
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,279
experience

1076
00:33:19,029 --> 00:33:17,519
um but again it's so hard to say right i

1077
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:19,039
mean there's really no proof beyond

1078
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:20,559
someone who says something that happens

1079
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:21,039
to you

1080
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:22,399
me as the investigator i just say hey

1081
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:24,000
that's really interesting you know is it

1082
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:24,799
proof of anything

1083
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:27,279
not really but again it's just uh it's

1084
00:33:29,669 --> 00:33:28,399
what i say in the documentary it's like

1085
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:29,679
no judgment is that's

1086
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:31,360
it's not for me to start going you're a

1087
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:33,440
liar or that's not enough it's just

1088
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:34,880
i just collect the information you know

1089
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:36,559
like i want to hear the stories i want

1090
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:39,279
to get what i can get um

1091
00:33:41,669 --> 00:33:40,559
it's really hard to draw conclusions for

1092
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:41,679
many of these things even when you do

1093
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:43,919
have a videotape or a photograph

1094
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:45,360
what conclusions can you really draw

1095
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:47,039
right especially today i mean

1096
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:49,360
where you can fake a ufo video with the

1097
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:51,600
apps on your phone you know it's just

1098
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:53,840
there's a there's no video today that i

1099
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:54,640
would see

1100
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:56,399
that that's going to convince me nothing

1101
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,919
no nothing like if someone actually

1102
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:59,120
sends me a video and says hey it's

1103
00:34:01,110 --> 00:34:00,480
aliasing okay that's cool you know

1104
00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:01,120
that's neat

1105
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:03,279
you know it's not proof of anything it's

1106
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,159
um

1107
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,440
it's uh i think the guardian tape was

1108
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,520
about much about who who i was at that

1109
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:11,520
time as it was the fact that this was

1110
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:12,800
pre-internet and it's this video and

1111
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:13,839
it's really spooky

1112
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:15,200
today i look at it it's like oh yeah it

1113
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:16,000
could have been this or it could have

1114
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:17,200
been that and maybe it's because i'm

1115
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:18,560
older and a bit more

1116
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:20,159
jaded as as you get when you're when

1117
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:21,679
you're older you're more skeptical and

1118
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:22,879
maybe you don't believe as much as you

1119
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:26,320
did when you were a kid but um

1120
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:27,679
i tell you when i still watch the men's

1121
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:29,119
all mysteries footage and i was showing

1122
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:30,800
it to my wife for the first time

1123
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:34,240
um it's still spooky you know i mean and

1124
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:36,079
it's a good show i mean we we still we

1125
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:37,200
just we keep watching we've been going

1126
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:38,240
through all the old episodes because

1127
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,040
it's

1128
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:41,919
it was just a fantastic program so just

1129
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:43,280
it was just a moment in time man it was

1130
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:44,560
just like i was in the right place at

1131
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:46,079
the right time like i said raised by the

1132
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:47,119
right people

1133
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:50,159
um there's so many other people like

1134
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:51,119
chris frakowski

1135
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,599
tom theophinus um errol bruce knapp drew

1136
00:34:57,190 --> 00:34:55,119
williamson people who

1137
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:57,200
um did much more investigative work on

1138
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:58,560
boots on the ground like it was it was

1139
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:00,160
so much already a lot of it had already

1140
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:01,760
been done before i got there

1141
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:04,480
mine was really more the rcmp angle um

1142
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:04,800
my

1143
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:11,119
when i was when i connected with bob um

1144
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:12,480
i didn't know about the history bob i

1145
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:14,560
didn't know about anything about him i

1146
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:15,359
just knew that

1147
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:16,720
he was the one in all the tv shows

1148
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:19,040
that's why i contacted him first

1149
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:20,720
he he the man that he knew i was a

1150
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:22,400
canadian i wasn't working with mufon

1151
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:24,160
ontario i wasn't part of queue foreign

1152
00:35:30,150 --> 00:35:27,520
um he was trying to get me to um get the

1153
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:30,160
declassified file the rcmp file he can

1154
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,520
get it because he's an american

1155
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:33,040
he can request it from access to

1156
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,640
information um

1157
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:36,640
the canadians when they filed their

1158
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:38,480
requests all that they were getting was

1159
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:40,960
this 10 to 15 page final report it was

1160
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:41,359
just

1161
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:42,640
they knew there was more they knew that

1162
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:44,400
there was like all of this material that

1163
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,000
the investigator had but

1164
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:48,000
they didn't know how to make the proper

1165
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:49,359
request apparently

1166
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:51,760
or something to that degree my father

1167
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:53,200
always sleeping in the rcmp said this is

1168
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:54,560
how you do it this is exactly what you

1169
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,599
ask for

1170
00:35:59,589 --> 00:35:57,520
and yeah then one day i get this giant

1171
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:59,599
envelope in the mail with like this 200

1172
00:36:02,870 --> 00:36:00,960
page document and it's it's all

1173
00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:02,880
photographs or photocopies

1174
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:04,480
but it's like it's photographs it's

1175
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:06,560
handwritten notes um

1176
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:09,040
it's all the reports interviews all this

1177
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:10,560
material and again it's all censored but

1178
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:12,000
if you know who the players are it's

1179
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:13,359
really easy to fill in the blanks that's

1180
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:14,400
what i was doing a lot of it was just

1181
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:15,040
feeling thanks

1182
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:16,880
and i even met with the constable i got

1183
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:18,800
he he agreed to meet with me um at rcmp

1184
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:20,640
headquarters um when i when i went up

1185
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:22,240
there with a with a friend of mine

1186
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:24,480
and um i mean it was really interesting

1187
00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:25,280
for him too and he was

1188
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,640
he was very gracious you know like he

1189
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:28,320
just answered all of our questions and

1190
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:29,119
uh

1191
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:31,520
um the rcmp his standing was that was a

1192
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:32,480
helicopter

1193
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:36,160
and um i think that it's even

1194
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:37,440
more prostate than that even more

1195
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:39,040
mundane i think i think the thing in the

1196
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:40,480
in the in the tape is just a pickup

1197
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:41,839
truck with a floodlight you know

1198
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:44,160
and four flares i mean it's uh yeah and

1199
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:45,280
it's not even just the fact that it

1200
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:46,560
looks like a pickup truck if you know

1201
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:48,079
what you're looking for i mean

1202
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,599
there there is there is a guardian

1203
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:51,440
suspect who had a truck that looked very

1204
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:52,560
much like that i mean like

1205
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:54,079
there's a whole part of this case that

1206
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:55,440
we just didn't really have the time to

1207
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:56,640
get into and of course you can't name

1208
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:57,920
names and stuff in a documentary because

1209
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:59,119
you don't want to it's privacy right i

1210
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:00,320
don't want to name these people

1211
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:02,480
i could be wrong for all i know right so

1212
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:04,160
these are real people with real lives

1213
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:04,720
but

1214
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:07,920
um i mean i absolutely have my ideas of

1215
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:08,320
i'm

1216
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,760
pretty sure i mean it's a small town man

1217
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:11,520
it's not like there's a ton of suspect

1218
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:13,520
that's a good point people talk you know

1219
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:15,040
so um i will say

1220
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:16,640
that uh and i'm not gonna name him but

1221
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:17,920
the person who they thought was the

1222
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,280
guardian suspect

1223
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:21,119
um coming back to this investigation 30

1224
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:23,119
years later and kind of reinvestigate it

1225
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:24,560
again because i just kind of had to you

1226
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:26,160
know you sort of realize that

1227
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:28,640
um your wire the wiring is still there

1228
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:29,839
it still works so

1229
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:31,599
i couldn't help but sort of investigate

1230
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:33,119
again um

1231
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:34,800
what i will say about the the previous

1232
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:38,880
guardian suspect is is having um

1233
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:41,520
more recent information i don't believe

1234
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:42,800
he had anything to do with it

1235
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:45,119
it's just um i think he was in the wrong

1236
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:46,800
place at the wrong time the person who

1237
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:47,440
sort of

1238
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:49,359
i would guess you would say outed him to

1239
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,800
the ufo investigators

1240
00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:52,400
um there was a reason why this was a

1241
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:54,000
person who actually has a great deal of

1242
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:55,440
interest in ufos

1243
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:58,320
um but he was not the guardian you know

1244
00:38:03,349 --> 00:37:59,040
he

1245
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:03,359
it's sort of like circumstantial

1246
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:04,720
evidence you know it points this certain

1247
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:06,160
way but it doesn't mean that it's true

1248
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:09,280
so um but again it's you've got a

1249
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:10,960
documentary that's 44 minutes you can't

1250
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:12,640
get into these tangents right because

1251
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:13,200
you have to

1252
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:15,040
have this focus so yeah the rcmp

1253
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:16,640
investigation isn't touched on and

1254
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,240
other things aren't touched on not

1255
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:20,160
because they're secret but because

1256
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:21,680
there's just isn't the time you know

1257
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:23,040
it's uh the information is out there

1258
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:24,320
obviously if you want to google it and

1259
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:24,960
find it

1260
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:26,880
or have someone on your podcast who

1261
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:28,800
knows a lot of the story

1262
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:31,359
but again it just comes back to um yeah

1263
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:32,000
i have a pretty good

1264
00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:35,520
idea um who guardian is and um

1265
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:36,800
it was really cool being able to come

1266
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,720
back after 30 years and still learn

1267
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:40,560
new things and and to have this

1268
00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:41,920
experience with these documentary people

1269
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:43,839
who just treated the subject matter with

1270
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:45,359
such respect

1271
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:48,000
um for everything like i said even the

1272
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:48,880
people who

1273
00:38:52,550 --> 00:38:51,040
may not come across so well um in the

1274
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:52,560
investigation itself

1275
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,560
um they were just so gracious you know

1276
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:56,480
like this wasn't this wasn't a hit piece

1277
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:56,880
or

1278
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:59,280
a smear piece um they've just really

1279
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:01,280
really it really turned into something

1280
00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:03,040
really cool which was just

1281
00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:04,480
something really interesting could have

1282
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:06,400
been happening in this area um the

1283
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:07,760
guardian stuff is almost certainly a

1284
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:08,560
hoax but

1285
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:10,400
the fact is other people were having his

1286
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:12,480
experiences completely independent they

1287
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:15,200
there had nothing to do with guardian um

1288
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:16,720
i think her name is lee cole one of the

1289
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:17,280
women

1290
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:19,839
who was interviewed in the documentary

1291
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:21,440
she's the classic case though right she

1292
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:22,800
had an independent experience

1293
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:24,480
the fox network tried to rope it in the

1294
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:26,160
guardian and she's right there on film

1295
00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:26,720
saying

1296
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,480
that's not true they said then that's

1297
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:30,240
not true it was perfect that's one of my

1298
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:31,599
favorite moments in the documentary

1299
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:32,800
because like there you go that's

1300
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:35,119
to me that is the case he has bob to a t

1301
00:39:38,069 --> 00:39:35,839
like he was

1302
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:38,079
trying to find things that would um

1303
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:39,520
reinforce his narrative which will

1304
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:40,480
really help when he was going to write

1305
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:41,680
his book i'm sure

1306
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:43,920
but um it kind of collapsed beneath him

1307
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:45,280
because one there just was it wasn't

1308
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:46,880
there you can't um

1309
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:49,520
you know you can't make a uh uh you know

1310
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,599
a silpers of a souzier as they say

1311
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:53,359
yeah um and you had the canadians

1312
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,720
actively saying you know

1313
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:56,400
not not even debunking them you know

1314
00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:57,760
they they're just they're not going to

1315
00:40:01,589 --> 00:39:58,720
let him

1316
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,599
um swindle the public on this and like

1317
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:03,119
this is our town this is our province

1318
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:04,400
this is our country you know we're not

1319
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,839
going to let you do this

1320
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:07,599
and and make a buck off it you know for

1321
00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:09,599
something that's blatantly false so

1322
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:11,920
um i think that that's that's another

1323
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:14,240
reason why ufo town succeeds because

1324
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,839
it's not trying to make the guardian

1325
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:17,280
case something that it isn't

1326
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,960
it's trying to show that maybe there was

1327
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:20,640
something going on in this area and

1328
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:22,480
this person who was guardian this this

1329
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,200
sort of hardcore conspiracy person

1330
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:27,599
um took advantage of it you know so it's

1331
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:28,240
uh

1332
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:31,200
that to me is much more likely um when

1333
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:32,560
you see the people that were involved

1334
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:34,800
were like hardcore into ufos i mean i

1335
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,599
remember

1336
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:37,760
um when when you see the literature if

1337
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:39,280
you go online i think it's out there

1338
00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:40,560
some of the some of the other guardian

1339
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:41,920
literature like it's spooky like it's

1340
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:42,960
it's the stuff that would have gone

1341
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:44,480
along really well with the q and on nuts

1342
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:45,760
these days right it's just

1343
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:46,720
right at home it was it was like

1344
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:48,880
predicting this stuff 30 years ago

1345
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:52,000
um i remember going up there and

1346
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:54,560
um it was either the rcmp constable or

1347
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:55,839
one of the other

1348
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,880
canadians were telling me that um

1349
00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:00,480
the people that they were suspecting to

1350
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:02,160
be involved in this hoax

1351
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:04,319
they're they're not just obviously

1352
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:05,520
they're kind of right when conspiracy

1353
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:06,960
people they don't like the government

1354
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:08,800
you know they're they're anti-government

1355
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:11,040
um you should be careful and of course

1356
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:12,240
i'm not thinking i'm thinking okay it's

1357
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:13,440
like and especially don't tell them that

1358
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:14,720
your father's the rcmp

1359
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:16,640
right i'm not even thinking this just

1360
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:17,920
remember me and my mother trench coat

1361
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,880
i'm in the woods

1362
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:20,560
yeah one of the things this to this

1363
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:21,920
guardian case was

1364
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:24,960
there was all these kinds of weird signs

1365
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,400
on on some of these royal properties

1366
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,800
like dnd killing fields nuclear testing

1367
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,000
ground but spelled wrong

1368
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:32,480
so um it looked like war games like uh

1369
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,240
like a like maybe paintball or

1370
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:36,160
child or teenage war games are going on

1371
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:37,760
out there with people that had

1372
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:40,160
very strong anti-government beliefs so

1373
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:41,520
i'm here trying to get photographs of

1374
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:42,000
these

1375
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:45,359
through three feet of snow

1376
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:46,880
and the signs are like like this is

1377
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:48,160
hunting territory right the signs are

1378
00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:50,160
all full of buckshot and stuff

1379
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:51,839
and as a 16 or 17 year old kid i'm not

1380
00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:53,599
even thinking that

1381
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:55,280
i'm not wearing a blaze orange hunting

1382
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:57,119
vest you know like i could get shot out

1383
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,319
here you know and

1384
00:42:01,910 --> 00:42:00,720
it's just but that's what i think today

1385
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:01,920
you're like i can't believe some of the

1386
00:42:04,309 --> 00:42:03,359
stuff that i did as a kid when you were

1387
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:04,319
just like you would approach these

1388
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:05,040
people and

1389
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:06,400
the person who we thought was garnier

1390
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:07,680
the time i'm going up and i'm knocking

1391
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:09,200
on his door to see if he'll talk with me

1392
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:09,520
and

1393
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,800
trying to be very polite being very

1394
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:14,400
canadian about it i don't know

1395
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,960
this guy you know but i sure would like

1396
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:18,319
for him to talk with me

1397
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:20,400
not realizing that this person could be

1398
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:22,400
unhinged you know this person could just

1399
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:25,440
jump you or something but again it's

1400
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:26,880
just sort of like the calo youth you

1401
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:28,880
know you don't you don't really realize

1402
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,359
what you're what you're getting into um

1403
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:33,119
in this case it's just so wacky i mean

1404
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:34,560
i've said that so many times i think i

1405
00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:36,240
said it in the documentary but

1406
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:37,520
and it sounds like a cliche but it's

1407
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:38,960
true but it's like it's a movie it felt

1408
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:40,720
like i was in a movie

1409
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:42,880
in the ufo lore like there's just

1410
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,079
nothing like the guardian

1411
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:46,079
case this this mysterious person with

1412
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:47,920
this name this cool sounding name

1413
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,880
sending out these this material and

1414
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:52,640
there's maps and you have to track down

1415
00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:54,640
the location to where the crash ufo was

1416
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:56,800
and the bunker and everything it's just

1417
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:59,280
it was cool you know like it was just i

1418
00:43:01,829 --> 00:43:00,880
would have done it anyway but like there

1419
00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:01,839
was there was an

1420
00:43:05,829 --> 00:43:04,560
x-filesy mulder component to it like i i

1421
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:05,839
liked the code you know don't get me

1422
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:06,560
wrong it wasn't just

1423
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:10,240
it wasn't just an affectation um um

1424
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:12,319
i come by all that stuff very honestly

1425
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:13,520
it wasn't just like oh i really like the

1426
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:14,480
x-files it's like well i like the

1427
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:15,920
x-files but this is the reason why my

1428
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:17,920
dad's an rcmp he's a federal agent you

1429
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:18,640
know like

1430
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:21,599
my my mother is like uh hardcore and a

1431
00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:22,800
ghost in the supernatural that's what i

1432
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,800
was raised on it was like my dad had all

1433
00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:26,400
these national geographics

1434
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:28,160
and my mom had stephen king novels lying

1435
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,440
around the house that's my upbringing

1436
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,440
that's why you've got 16 year old

1437
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:33,440
ufo investigator gets wrapped up in the

1438
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:35,680
guardian case and today you've got 44

1439
00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:36,480
year old

1440
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:39,760
horror novelist you know that's you know

1441
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:40,640
like

1442
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,079
sums it up more than that man i mean

1443
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:44,319
that's right i could just draw a line

1444
00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:46,400
you know it's like oh twin peaks x-files

1445
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:47,359
guardian

1446
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,119
shake that for 30 years and you've got

1447
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:51,599
me that's what you got today what a

1448
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:52,960
journey man well

1449
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:55,680
i mean you're you're you bring up so

1450
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:57,520
many good points i mean one

1451
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:01,040
it's like this area

1452
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:04,720
was clearly activity was going on

1453
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:07,680
whether it's ufos or um you know like

1454
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:09,680
you said there is military

1455
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:12,720
um there is a military base somewhat

1456
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:13,680
nearby

1457
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:16,400
uh so clearly something was going on and

1458
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:18,960
it was so good in the documentary to see

1459
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:22,079
these everyday all walks of life people

1460
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:24,640
saying yeah i mean like i don't know if

1461
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:25,599
it was what

1462
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:27,599
this guardian thing was but i saw

1463
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:28,880
something or

1464
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:30,160
you know you've got another witness

1465
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:33,200
saying he saw a helicopter come down

1466
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:35,599
guys get out and get back in and leave

1467
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,040
and he's not saying

1468
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:39,359
look it was a ufo he's saying this is

1469
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:40,960
what i saw happen

1470
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:42,560
um and i think it was really good that

1471
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:44,720
the the documentary um

1472
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:46,240
made that point like you mentioned with

1473
00:44:49,030 --> 00:44:48,560
the one witness who said i saw something

1474
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,040
like

1475
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,760
four years after the guardian event um

1476
00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:53,119
but they said that it happened at the

1477
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:53,760
same time

1478
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:55,839
that happens so often i think you know

1479
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:57,440
we're creatures of

1480
00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:59,280
pattern we want to make patterns out of

1481
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:01,839
things whether that's subconsciously or

1482
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:04,560
maybe in bob's case consciously trying

1483
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,119
to lump

1484
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:07,359
everything together to make it more than

1485
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:08,240
it actually is

1486
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:11,280
um well i mean run into that problem let

1487
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:12,480
me tell you why it was so hard to find

1488
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:13,280
that pattern though

1489
00:45:17,109 --> 00:45:15,200
the perfect example is the tape itself

1490
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:17,119
this weird thing with these four flares

1491
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:20,000
rcmp says it's a helicopter and yet in

1492
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,839
the rcmp report the investigator

1493
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:23,359
spoke to a bunch of military guys a

1494
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:24,720
bunch of helicopter pilots as part of

1495
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,839
his interviews in there

1496
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:27,200
they're all saying oh yeah it could be

1497
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:28,800
this helicopter could be that but the

1498
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:30,000
thing is is

1499
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:32,079
those the flares don't fit if this was

1500
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,680
military maneuvers and they're doing

1501
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:35,200
night maneuvers and they're practicing

1502
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:36,560
like flying as low to the ground as they

1503
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:38,319
can get without landing or in this case

1504
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:39,200
landing

1505
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:41,040
they don't use red flares they use

1506
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:42,720
infrared flares they only show up in

1507
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:43,920
infrared so

1508
00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:45,599
the flares don't match so it's like

1509
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:47,359
anytime you try to find a pattern or a

1510
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:48,960
logic this is why

1511
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,960
um i i get that the the rcp kind of

1512
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:52,319
constable and he was on encounters like

1513
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,680
he was actually like he's

1514
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:55,599
uh i guess i could name him but i'm

1515
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:56,880
gonna leave him alone so

1516
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:58,319
but i mean he was involved in one of the

1517
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:59,920
fox programs and they're adamant that

1518
00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:00,960
it's a helicopter

1519
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:02,319
and for me it's just like i don't even

1520
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:03,599
think it's anything that cool i think

1521
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,800
it's a pickup truck you know and the

1522
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:06,319
guy's got a couple of road flares he got

1523
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,880
from

1524
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:08,960
canadian tire home hardware or something

1525
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:10,240
so i think it's

1526
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:12,480
uh someone was trying to go i think it

1527
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:14,240
was one of the unsolved mysteries people

1528
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:16,160
or someone connect with like oh yeah to

1529
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:17,680
a fake this it would have cost

1530
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,680
um a hundred thousand dollars and we're

1531
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:21,040
like no way

1532
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:22,800
there's no way but again it's supposed

1533
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:24,240
to it's a line

1534
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:26,079
that you give that's supposed to add to

1535
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,240
it's aliens you know it's just like

1536
00:46:31,829 --> 00:46:30,240
it's it's supposed to back up that and

1537
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:31,839
that's not evidence you just you can't

1538
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:33,520
throw a figure like that and then say oh

1539
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:35,119
it's aliens like that's

1540
00:46:37,990 --> 00:46:36,400
unfortunately that's the way that some

1541
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:38,000
people hear it right i mean people

1542
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:39,680
believe what they want to believe

1543
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:41,520
um i don't have that luxury as an

1544
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:43,760
investigator this is the reason why

1545
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:47,200
um on the x-files

1546
00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:48,880
just to talk about that show how often

1547
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:50,560
was scully ever write you know she's

1548
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:51,920
never right you know because again if

1549
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:53,200
she's right they don't have a show it's

1550
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:53,920
a pretty boring

1551
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:55,839
oh if every other week even if she gave

1552
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:57,520
even 50 50 right

1553
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:59,200
every other week scully turns out oh

1554
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,640
it's it's not a monster it's not an

1555
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:02,079
alien conspiracy it's it's

1556
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:03,760
something mundane you don't have a tv

1557
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:05,760
show no one wants to watch that tv show

1558
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:07,440
so the reason why believers attach

1559
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:09,119
themselves to cases like this

1560
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,960
is because the mundane is boring like

1561
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:12,240
life is generally

1562
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:14,000
fairly prosaic it's not it's not

1563
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:16,160
uneventful but movies and tv shows are

1564
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:17,520
way more exciting it's way more it's

1565
00:47:20,710 --> 00:47:17,839
more

1566
00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:20,720
fun to believe right it's helicopter

1567
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:21,599
pickup truck

1568
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:24,160
it's not interesting you know but i got

1569
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:26,160
interested because it's interesting

1570
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,280
but i i stayed an investigator because

1571
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:32,400
i had the wherewithal to realize that

1572
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,559
even if the conclusion isn't satisfying

1573
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:36,240
um it's still the truth

1574
00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:37,599
you know and that's that's that's what

1575
00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:39,119
you have to that's what you have to

1576
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:39,680
accept

1577
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,880
you know i think that's that's why a lot

1578
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:42,319
of investigators burn out because it's

1579
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:43,760
not what they want it to be

1580
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:46,000
maybe um for me it was just the guardian

1581
00:47:48,950 --> 00:47:47,440
case was the biggest case i was ever

1582
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:48,960
involved and everything's downhill after

1583
00:47:55,910 --> 00:47:54,390
well you you bring up a um you had a

1584
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,920
good line i don't remember if this was

1585
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,599
in the documentary or

1586
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:59,520
in um the article you wrote over at the

1587
00:48:03,670 --> 00:48:00,960
cbc but um

1588
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:03,680
it was something to the lines of um you

1589
00:48:08,950 --> 00:48:06,240
know sometimes the mystery is better yes

1590
00:48:12,069 --> 00:48:08,960
and i think for many people that is the

1591
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:12,079
case you know i got into ufos not to

1592
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,400
solve the mystery or find out that

1593
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:16,640
aliens have been visiting us i

1594
00:48:20,790 --> 00:48:19,040
i just love pursuing a mystery and i

1595
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:20,800
think a lot of people

1596
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:22,480
like that they like that journey it's

1597
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:24,480
not really the destination they're

1598
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:26,319
they're worried about it gives you some

1599
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:27,520
sense of meaning

1600
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,559
and i think all humans can um why why

1601
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:31,920
else are we here you know that's

1602
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:33,680
the biggest questions in life why are we

1603
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,040
here um

1604
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,800
you know what happens when we die is

1605
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,400
there life elsewhere

1606
00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:40,000
and a lot of us are trying to figure out

1607
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:42,079
the life elsewhere other of us want to

1608
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:43,839
know why we're here and i think

1609
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:46,160
this topic gives meaning and purpose to

1610
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:46,880
a lot of

1611
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:49,599
people out there so um i think that's

1612
00:48:53,829 --> 00:48:50,880
kind of what

1613
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:53,839
the whole guardian thing like you say

1614
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:54,960
represents

1615
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:58,559
um this want for something more and um

1616
00:49:01,589 --> 00:48:59,599
i think that's why a lot of these

1617
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:01,599
conspiracy theories nowadays

1618
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:04,319
are so big because people want to feel

1619
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:04,960
like they

1620
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:07,440
know why things happen when in reality

1621
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:09,280
we don't know why things happen

1622
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:11,680
well there's this periodic place there

1623
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:12,960
they're also i find the conspiracy

1624
00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:14,720
theories these days a lot i mean we were

1625
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:16,000
my wife and i were re-watching the

1626
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:17,359
x-files recently

1627
00:49:21,910 --> 00:49:19,119
and it's like we're just talking about

1628
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:21,920
how quaint the conspiracies of the 1990s

1629
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:23,520
were today like today it's like no one

1630
00:49:26,950 --> 00:49:25,280
trusts anyone everything's fake news

1631
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:26,960
everything's a false flag operation you

1632
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:28,319
can't trust anyone

1633
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:30,559
it's like it's just like when you think

1634
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:33,359
about roswell or even the jfk conspiracy

1635
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:34,640
um and you can't trust the government

1636
00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:35,839
it's always seen as like this sort of

1637
00:49:38,069 --> 00:49:37,440
the shadow government this group of

1638
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:38,079
people

1639
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:40,079
um within the the largely good

1640
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:41,920
government but these days it's just like

1641
00:49:44,309 --> 00:49:43,200
you don't even want to leave the house

1642
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:44,319
you can't breathe you can't trust the

1643
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:45,680
air you can't breathe the air

1644
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:47,760
um everything's fake news doesn't matter

1645
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:49,200
how many facts you've got all you have

1646
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:50,800
to say is that that's not true

1647
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:52,400
and and half your audience will believe

1648
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:54,240
you just based on those words it's not

1649
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:55,520
even proof so

1650
00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:58,880
the the conspiracies of of tv shows and

1651
00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:01,599
movies from like pre-911

1652
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,040
like i said they're almost adorable

1653
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:05,280
they're almost precious precocious

1654
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:06,480
compared to what you have to deal with

1655
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:08,240
like today's stuff it's not

1656
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:09,680
entertainment spooky i don't want to

1657
00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:12,000
watch that stuff like the x-files today

1658
00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:15,040
um even with the reboot or not

1659
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:16,079
not the reboot when they brought them

1660
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:17,200
back for the couple of those later

1661
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:18,800
seasons it was like how do you do the

1662
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,920
x-files do they still make it

1663
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:21,520
entertaining where it's not just scary

1664
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:23,200
like not scary in a good way like it's

1665
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:26,079
not it's no longer escapism scary it's i

1666
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,359
don't want to watch an episode with that

1667
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:29,040
i just saw i just read that on cnn i'm

1668
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,400
watching this because i'm like

1669
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:32,240
the werewolf or even the alien

1670
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:34,480
conspiracy was a lot more quaint than

1671
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:35,680
than than stuff that you would see in

1672
00:50:40,230 --> 00:50:38,000
the news today it's uh it's it's

1673
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:40,240
it's just too close to home now you know

1674
00:50:42,549 --> 00:50:41,280
so it's uh

1675
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:42,559
yeah you know i was just wondering like

1676
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:43,760
what would you like what does it look

1677
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:45,119
like today what would that what would

1678
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:46,319
those x-files look like today it's like

1679
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:47,920
no no it had its time you know like in

1680
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:49,040
the 90s like i said that second

1681
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:50,160
renaissance of

1682
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:52,240
of ufos and aliens in the media i mean

1683
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:54,000
we have different uh shows today that

1684
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:54,720
are popular

1685
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:57,280
so um it's fine but i mean even with

1686
00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:59,599
ufos like i said it's just

1687
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:00,880
it's still a subject i mean there's

1688
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:03,040
still the occasional blip but um

1689
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:05,040
it's it's not what it was you know it's

1690
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:06,160
yeah it was before

1691
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:08,319
you know right and i think you're right

1692
00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:09,760
i think you know even with guardian

1693
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:11,359
there's this sense of

1694
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:14,880
um playfulness almost to it

1695
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:18,640
and um and and almost an innocence

1696
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:20,720
even if it was a hoax you know it's like

1697
00:51:26,230 --> 00:51:23,359
ah we got him but nowadays you're right

1698
00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:26,240
i think why the x-files didn't really

1699
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:28,640
land as well with those last two new

1700
00:51:32,589 --> 00:51:30,079
seasons they did is because

1701
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:32,599
they tried to set it in real world yeah

1702
00:51:37,030 --> 00:51:33,760
2019

1703
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:37,040
2018 up until today and it's it's too

1704
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:39,760
terrifyingly real and i think that's why

1705
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:40,960
it didn't really

1706
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:44,160
work no it didn't work

1707
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:45,920
that was my take too i mean with the

1708
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:47,680
exception of a couple of episodes it's

1709
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:48,240
usually

1710
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:50,160
standalones like the ones that darren

1711
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:52,000
morgan writes who's always the funniest

1712
00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:53,520
when he writes the funny ones

1713
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:56,480
um my take away from it was yeah it's

1714
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:58,000
never as good as it used to be

1715
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:59,280
but it's still nice to see the two

1716
00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:00,480
actors together they've got great

1717
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:02,160
chemistry i love them both so

1718
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:03,440
it's like i'm willing to forgive them

1719
00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:04,559
that they're not as good as the original

1720
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:06,079
it was still nice to see i mean

1721
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,280
they're it's never going to be as good

1722
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:09,200
as the original but yeah it's sort of

1723
00:52:11,349 --> 00:52:10,160
like

1724
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:11,359
in what world did they think that they'd

1725
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:12,640
be able to do something business still

1726
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:13,599
going to be entertainment it was just

1727
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:19,829
i want that escapism i knew i knew that

1728
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,400
um

1729
00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:22,559
i knew when i got you on here and that

1730
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:24,640
this would turn into an x-files episode

1731
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:25,040
because

1732
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:26,640
as soon as i saw you in that trench coat

1733
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:28,240
i'm like i'm gonna i'm gonna get along

1734
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:30,000
with this guy um

1735
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:31,920
but i guess i mean kind of i guess

1736
00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:33,680
bringing it back a little too

1737
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:36,720
to guardian um in terms of evidence

1738
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:39,119
um this was a question some of my

1739
00:52:42,549 --> 00:52:40,800
listeners had i don't know if

1740
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,559
you have an answer for it or if any

1741
00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:44,720
investigators do um

1742
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:47,920
the thumbprint i mean was this ever

1743
00:52:54,790 --> 00:52:51,359
analyzed or tested it's almost like a um

1744
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:54,800
you know literally a kidnapper leaving

1745
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:56,480
their calling card um

1746
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:59,520
anything like that uh it was um the

1747
00:53:02,870 --> 00:53:00,960
there's there's blow ups of it and the

1748
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:02,880
rcmp documents so i mean

1749
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:05,520
um i believe and i think this is

1750
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:06,640
something it's not it

1751
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:09,839
they didn't run the his print in

1752
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:11,839
in the document or in the rcmp report

1753
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:12,880
itself but i believe i

1754
00:53:16,630 --> 00:53:14,400
had asked the constable about that when

1755
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:16,640
we met with him and again this was it's

1756
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:17,359
91

1757
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:19,520
it's um it's not like they are

1758
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:21,760
collecting um fingerprints of everyone

1759
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:22,960
you know contrary to what some

1760
00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:24,640
conspiracy people might think and

1761
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:26,319
anytime you touch a penny your

1762
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:29,119
your your dna your fingerprints are in

1763
00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:30,000
the record

1764
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:31,760
um i think all they determined was that

1765
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:33,040
he didn't have a criminal record i mean

1766
00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:34,800
if he didn't have a criminal record

1767
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:37,200
um it didn't match anything just it

1768
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:37,839
didn't come up

1769
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:39,200
and all they had was a thumb print right

1770
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:40,880
they didn't have a full set of prints

1771
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:43,440
um so assuming that it was actually

1772
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:44,800
guardian's print and it wasn't like his

1773
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:46,880
mom that he got to do it you know uh

1774
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:48,079
i mean that's what they always said with

1775
00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:49,839
the old zodiac letters right the zodiac

1776
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:51,680
killer in san francisco was

1777
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:53,520
oh well he you know when they were

1778
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:55,040
trying to pull dna off the envelopes oh

1779
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:56,160
well he did what if he didn't lick the

1780
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,680
envelopes what if he knew about dna i

1781
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:59,280
was like well it was the 1960s you know

1782
00:54:03,510 --> 00:53:59,680
he

1783
00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:03,520
public consciousness right but yeah

1784
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:05,680
um but even if he didn't again it's just

1785
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:08,000
like yeah it's it's circumstantial right

1786
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:09,760
you pull dna off of something and all it

1787
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:11,680
proves is that that person had contact

1788
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:13,200
with that object so

1789
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:14,880
it's it doesn't necessarily mean like

1790
00:54:17,589 --> 00:54:16,480
say in this case if this fingerprint

1791
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:17,599
matched someone

1792
00:54:20,950 --> 00:54:20,000
um all it means is that that person

1793
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:20,960
touched that label

1794
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:22,400
that label could have been in a drawer

1795
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:24,079
for years and then guardian typed a

1796
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:25,680
guardian on it and slapped it on so

1797
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:27,200
again from an investigating point of

1798
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:28,640
view that's something where i would say

1799
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:29,680
um

1800
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:31,599
i thank my dad a lot is that i've got

1801
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:33,760
that uh investigator's mind very very

1802
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:34,800
skeptical

1803
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:37,359
and um it's just like oh yeah it could

1804
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:38,559
be this but it also could be that that

1805
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:39,520
that and that it just

1806
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:40,960
you know people sort of want their own

1807
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:42,480
internal narrative especially when a lot

1808
00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:44,079
of people who come to ufology

1809
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,920
um they want to be mulder you know and i

1810
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:47,440
want to be mulder too but again i've got

1811
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:49,040
this my dad background going

1812
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:50,400
it's got to be logical it's got to be a

1813
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:51,760
real investigation you have to do this

1814
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:52,079
this

1815
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:57,040
i never jumped to conclusions about it i

1816
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:58,640
tried to be as

1817
00:55:02,390 --> 00:55:00,480
as methodical and scientific about it as

1818
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:02,400
as a 17 year old kid can be with limited

1819
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:03,440
resources

1820
00:55:06,470 --> 00:55:05,040
for a case that everyone already had

1821
00:55:09,109 --> 00:55:06,480
dismissed as a hoax

1822
00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:09,119
but i think even for me it was just i

1823
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:10,880
think even at that age i was a lot more

1824
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:12,720
interested in the psychological aspect

1825
00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:14,160
to it too it wasn't even that i thought

1826
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:16,319
the guardian case was necessarily real

1827
00:55:20,230 --> 00:55:18,960
um i really just wanted to find guardian

1828
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:20,240
you know and i was searching for him too

1829
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:22,319
i wanted to talk to him and find out

1830
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,720
um why he had done this if there was

1831
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:26,640
anything legitimate and maybe it got

1832
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:29,280
you know taken out of context um it was

1833
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:30,960
as much for me finding that on on that

1834
00:55:35,829 --> 00:55:33,359
level than it was really trying to

1835
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:35,839
find a ufo crash site in the woods you

1836
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:37,040
know like i wasn't really expecting to

1837
00:55:39,349 --> 00:55:38,240
find anything but again it was fine

1838
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:39,359
you're there you might as well do it

1839
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:40,880
it's an adventure right i'm not

1840
00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:42,480
expecting to find anything i know that

1841
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:42,880
i'm

1842
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:49,599
even at that age i was mature enough to

1843
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:50,880
to know that much so

1844
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:52,319
but i was still there you know i was

1845
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:54,079
still doing it so i mean maybe on some

1846
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:55,520
part of my mind i thought i'd find

1847
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:57,839
something crashed ufo probably not but

1848
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:59,520
maybe something you know maybe maybe

1849
00:56:01,670 --> 00:56:00,079
something

1850
00:56:02,789 --> 00:56:01,680
there's a lot of weird stuff out there

1851
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:02,799
you know like it's just that's what i

1852
00:56:06,230 --> 00:56:03,839
will say like those

1853
00:56:06,870 --> 00:56:06,240
weird military signs like fake military

1854
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:06,880
signs

1855
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:08,480
they were they were just as spooky as

1856
00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:09,599
some of that stuff on that tape like who

1857
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:11,599
was making these things you know

1858
00:56:14,309 --> 00:56:12,720
there was there was supposedly like

1859
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:14,319
there was a shed on a piece of property

1860
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:15,599
where a lot of these signs have been

1861
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:16,000
collected

1862
00:56:20,950 --> 00:56:19,440
i was trying to find the shed too so

1863
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:20,960
who who was doing this like was there

1864
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:23,040
more than one guardian what was what was

1865
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:23,839
their agenda

1866
00:56:27,670 --> 00:56:26,480
you know and it's just it i just wanted

1867
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:27,680
to crack it open it wasn't even just

1868
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,520
about trying to find aliens it was it

1869
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:31,200
was trying to find the aliens among us

1870
00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:32,960
you know trying to find the people you

1871
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:35,200
know that was just as interesting if not

1872
00:56:38,309 --> 00:56:35,760
more so

1873
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:38,319
you know exactly and i couldn't agree

1874
00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:39,599
more i think you know

1875
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,760
when we get involved with ufos or the

1876
00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:43,119
question of aliens

1877
00:56:46,390 --> 00:56:45,359
it is kind of a mirror on ourselves so

1878
00:56:49,109 --> 00:56:46,400
we're not really

1879
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:49,119
looking for what is out there we're

1880
00:56:52,789 --> 00:56:50,319
we're looking at who we

1881
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:52,799
are and what role we play in all of this

1882
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:55,359
and i think that's what a lot of this um

1883
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:58,559
ufo community represents is uh

1884
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:01,520
a need to want to know and a need to

1885
00:57:05,349 --> 00:57:02,720
want to find out

1886
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:05,359
who we are so let's think of the other

1887
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:06,960
and how they would perceive us you know

1888
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:08,160
you look at like

1889
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:10,480
the contact e movement back in the 50s

1890
00:57:13,750 --> 00:57:11,599
and 60s

1891
00:57:14,870 --> 00:57:13,760
you know um stop what you're doing don't

1892
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:14,880
build nukes

1893
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:17,440
like we gotta all get along peace love

1894
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:18,400
and it's like

1895
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:20,640
yeah we don't need aliens to come down

1896
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:22,559
and intervene and tell us that

1897
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:24,880
we should know that as human beings but

1898
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,680
um

1899
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:27,760
it is i think it says a lot more about

1900
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:29,040
us than it does

1901
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:32,720
whatever happened in carp at that time

1902
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:33,520
but um

1903
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:36,559
i gotta ask you besides guardian um a

1904
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:39,200
lot of my canadian viewers and listeners

1905
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:41,200
they were so thankful that this

1906
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:42,960
documentary came out that highlighted

1907
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:43,760
something that

1908
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:45,440
happened in canada because they don't

1909
00:57:48,390 --> 00:57:47,440
get that that often like we said at the

1910
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:48,400
top of the show

1911
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:51,599
um are there any cases that you would

1912
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,680
turn people to that have happened in

1913
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:55,680
canada or canada that really make you

1914
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:56,319
think

1915
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:58,480
there's something going on here well you

1916
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:59,680
know what it's uh

1917
00:58:02,630 --> 00:58:00,880
like i said i don't like to hog the

1918
00:58:03,190 --> 00:58:02,640
spotlight for this just because i i sort

1919
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:03,200
of know

1920
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:04,960
know so much about guardian i mean i had

1921
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:06,559
a part to play the investigation like i

1922
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:07,119
said

1923
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:08,480
the other investigators that i named who

1924
00:58:10,549 --> 00:58:09,920
did a lot more of the grunt work than i

1925
00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:10,559
did

1926
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:13,760
um but in terms of other cases uh

1927
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:16,160
uh chris frankowski has got this great

1928
00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:17,760
book about the falcon lake incident

1929
00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:18,400
which is

1930
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:20,240
probably the biggest i mean guardian is

1931
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:21,599
definitely the most infamous but in

1932
00:58:24,230 --> 00:58:22,480
terms of like

1933
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:24,240
something actually happened here i

1934
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:25,839
couldn't even tell you what it was

1935
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:27,839
would be the falcon lake incident in

1936
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:28,880
falcon lake um

1937
00:58:35,109 --> 00:58:32,160
manitoba there's also shag harbor um

1938
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:35,119
nova scotia where there was allegedly a

1939
00:58:39,670 --> 00:58:36,240
ufo that crashed

1940
00:58:40,309 --> 00:58:39,680
um into the harbor uh that's what that

1941
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:40,319
was even

1942
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:42,079
like almost dramatized in like like a

1943
00:58:44,870 --> 00:58:43,520
marvel comic book i think there was a

1944
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:44,880
comic book component to it where they

1945
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,000
had wrapped it up in some

1946
00:58:50,069 --> 00:58:48,880
some story um it almost immediately

1947
00:58:53,030 --> 00:58:50,079
became part of the pop culture

1948
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:53,040
so there's definitely we do have um uh

1949
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:54,480
cases in canada

1950
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:57,680
uh that are quite provocative you know

1951
00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:58,559
quite interesting

1952
00:59:01,750 --> 00:59:00,000
and and for free for people to track

1953
00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:01,760
down so maybe maybe not as much as there

1954
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:03,200
are in the united states

1955
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:05,520
or or abroad um which was something that

1956
00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:07,280
again that i noticed before a guardian

1957
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:08,799
was it was always happening so far away

1958
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:09,920
it was like roswell

1959
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:12,880
or uh uh render some forest you know in

1960
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:13,839
the uk

1961
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:16,400
um great cases but uh for stuff

1962
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:17,760
happening in canada much less

1963
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:19,760
in ontario in my in my neighborhood my

1964
00:59:23,510 --> 00:59:20,880
neck of the woods

1965
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:23,520
um i don't know uh i'm trying to think

1966
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:25,440
of more in ontario

1967
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:27,440
nothing really that big that i can think

1968
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:28,640
of other than yeah

1969
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:30,240
the guardians nothing that really comes

1970
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:31,839
to mind again like i said like i've been

1971
00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:33,440
i keep a toe into it

1972
00:59:36,789 --> 00:59:36,000
um for what's going on more recently but

1973
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:36,799
um

1974
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:37,920
going back to like the classic

1975
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:39,599
literature i haven't really dug up into

1976
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:41,520
my old ufo books into a number of years

1977
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:41,839
but

1978
00:59:44,950 --> 00:59:43,520
the big ones be uh falcon lake in

1979
00:59:46,630 --> 00:59:44,960
manitoba um

1980
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:46,640
pick up chris rakowski's book on that

1981
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:48,400
one uh

1982
00:59:51,910 --> 00:59:49,920
which is like the definitive guy he

1983
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:51,920
wrote it with um the witness's son

1984
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:54,720
um right and mickalack i believe it was

1985
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:55,599
yeah

1986
00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:57,440
and uh and shag harbor i don't know if

1987
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:58,960
there's a definitive book on that i

1988
01:00:01,750 --> 01:00:00,079
think there's a there's a lot

1989
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:01,760
less evidence probably because it's

1990
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:03,359
supposedly crashed in the ocean and you

1991
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:04,000
can't

1992
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:06,720
really investigate out there um but

1993
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:07,280
there still

1994
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:09,119
is um there is a there is a good story

1995
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:10,960
to that one too those those would be the

1996
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:12,240
two biggest i would say if you're trying

1997
01:00:15,270 --> 01:00:13,760
to get a crash course and the big

1998
01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:15,280
canadian cases i would say those are

1999
01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:16,720
probably two of the biggest

2000
01:00:20,950 --> 01:00:19,119
yeah i would definitely have to agree um

2001
01:00:24,549 --> 01:00:20,960
well let's talk about

2002
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:24,559
ian rogers today you know we left ufo

2003
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:24,960
guy

2004
01:00:30,470 --> 01:00:28,079
behind we're now a published author

2005
01:00:31,109 --> 01:00:30,480
um with many books and novellas under

2006
01:00:33,510 --> 01:00:31,119
your belt

2007
01:00:35,109 --> 01:00:33,520
tell us a little about um your horror

2008
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:35,119
writing if you don't mind man i love to

2009
01:00:37,829 --> 01:00:35,440
see

2010
01:00:39,349 --> 01:00:37,839
like what happened then and how it

2011
01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:39,359
brings you to where you are today so

2012
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:41,040
tell us what you're up to nowadays

2013
01:00:44,150 --> 01:00:42,640
yeah well like i said it's funny like my

2014
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:44,160
my mom is that was a really strong

2015
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:45,359
influence um

2016
01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:47,200
in terms of horror fiction she uh she

2017
01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:48,799
always had stephen king books and dean

2018
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:50,240
[\h__\h] book dean coons books lying around

2019
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:51,119
the house

2020
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:53,119
and um even in terms of like movies like

2021
01:00:56,789 --> 01:00:54,960
my sister and i we used to watch horror

2022
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:56,799
movies all the time even as kids

2023
01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:59,280
um my dad wasn't wasn't a really big

2024
01:01:01,430 --> 01:01:00,319
horror fan

2025
01:01:02,309 --> 01:01:01,440
but my parents really just didn't

2026
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:02,319
believe they didn't really believe in

2027
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:03,680
censoring us i mean

2028
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:05,520
within reason we were pretty much

2029
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:07,200
allowed to watch whatever we wanted

2030
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:10,720
the the only real rule was um

2031
01:01:13,829 --> 01:01:12,240
from my dad that if if it gives you

2032
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:13,839
nightmares you're cut off that's it

2033
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,680
so and i mean even as kids i remember

2034
01:01:19,109 --> 01:01:17,280
like the only the only movie that we

2035
01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:19,119
ever had to turn off and re-watch the

2036
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:20,960
next day was i think was like

2037
01:01:24,630 --> 01:01:23,200
uh sam raimi's the evil dead you know

2038
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:24,640
just a really terrifying movie we just

2039
01:01:27,190 --> 01:01:26,079
didn't tell my dad he was like no don't

2040
01:01:27,990 --> 01:01:27,200
tell everyone else we're gonna get cut

2041
01:01:29,510 --> 01:01:28,000
off so

2042
01:01:30,870 --> 01:01:29,520
it was like we started it was really

2043
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:30,880
scary we turned it off and finished it

2044
01:01:34,309 --> 01:01:31,760
in the morning

2045
01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:34,319
and and uh but yeah i mean it was just

2046
01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:35,839
that's the horror influence from a kid

2047
01:01:37,589 --> 01:01:37,280
is like you've got this stuff and for us

2048
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:37,599
like

2049
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:38,799
i think just because we knew it was

2050
01:01:43,349 --> 01:01:40,960
movies even though we're scared um we

2051
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:43,359
knew it wasn't real so it didn't really

2052
01:01:48,150 --> 01:01:45,520
i don't think it did it didn't warp us

2053
01:01:50,630 --> 01:01:48,160
the way that some people think uh

2054
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:50,640
media like that can can do that to kids

2055
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:51,200
so

2056
01:01:55,589 --> 01:01:52,880
i mean it's funny i mean for as much as

2057
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:55,599
i was interested in ufos and aliens

2058
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,920
um i didn't go into writing science

2059
01:02:01,990 --> 01:01:59,680
fiction i write horror fiction

2060
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:02,000
um i have written one ufo novel that i

2061
01:02:04,549 --> 01:02:03,520
actually haven't sold yet

2062
01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:04,559
which was funny because that was

2063
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:05,839
something that my agent was talking

2064
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:07,440
about recently was

2065
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,880
it's too bad this book isn't ready when

2066
01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:10,640
your ufo documentary is coming out

2067
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:11,760
that's the book we should be selling

2068
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:12,720
right now but we're

2069
01:02:16,870 --> 01:02:14,400
i'm shopping a different book right now

2070
01:02:18,470 --> 01:02:16,880
and uh yeah i do some work with uh i've

2071
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:18,480
got a lot of stuff that's been optioned

2072
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,920
by uh by hollywood for film and

2073
01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:21,520
television so um

2074
01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:22,720
always waiting for something like that

2075
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:23,920
to take off you know you never know it's

2076
01:02:26,549 --> 01:02:24,880
always a crap shoot with

2077
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:26,559
that kind of stuff but i've got people

2078
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:28,240
that are interested in that regularly

2079
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:29,680
you know i consider my work

2080
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:33,039
um which is always nice um yeah so it's

2081
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:35,200
it's mostly um like supernatural fiction

2082
01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:36,559
haunted house fiction

2083
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:38,799
um i do a series called the blacklands

2084
01:02:43,190 --> 01:02:40,720
it's a sort of a supernatural detective

2085
01:02:44,789 --> 01:02:43,200
noir series i call them supernovas

2086
01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:44,799
um it's basically a world where the

2087
01:02:49,349 --> 01:02:46,400
supernatural just exists

2088
01:02:50,710 --> 01:02:49,359
uh it's been around since the 1940s um

2089
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:50,720
actually i used a ufo event the

2090
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:52,880
disappearance of flight 19. so

2091
01:02:56,069 --> 01:02:55,119
um these these ships go off into the you

2092
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:56,079
know to do a

2093
01:03:01,589 --> 01:02:59,680
uh an exercise bombing run off of the

2094
01:03:02,870 --> 01:03:01,599
atlantic coast to florida and they

2095
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:02,880
vanish so

2096
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:04,319
in my world so i guess you would say

2097
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:06,160
it's alternate history um

2098
01:03:09,430 --> 01:03:07,760
they've come across these portals this

2099
01:03:11,589 --> 01:03:09,440
the arrival of these portals so

2100
01:03:14,069 --> 01:03:11,599
it's almost like reality has been you

2101
01:03:15,510 --> 01:03:14,079
know raked over a cheese grater and all

2102
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:15,520
these portals start to appear all over

2103
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,480
the world

2104
01:03:20,549 --> 01:03:18,480
they're invisible you can't see them and

2105
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:20,559
they open onto a world that lies right

2106
01:03:22,630 --> 01:03:21,359
next to ours

2107
01:03:24,230 --> 01:03:22,640
and it's called they call it the black

2108
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:24,240
lands because there's no sun over there

2109
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:26,720
it's always this perpetual night

2110
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:28,799
and it's filled with every supernatural

2111
01:03:31,109 --> 01:03:30,000
creature you can think of all

2112
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:31,119
the stuff that comes from our

2113
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:32,559
superstitions this is where it comes

2114
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:34,079
it's this other world that sort of lies

2115
01:03:38,470 --> 01:03:35,599
next door to our own

2116
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:38,480
so the world for the past 70 or 80 years

2117
01:03:41,670 --> 01:03:39,599
has learned to has

2118
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:41,680
has to learn to live with these portals

2119
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:44,079
so um

2120
01:03:47,109 --> 01:03:45,680
most of them uh or there's i would say

2121
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:47,119
that there's a large concentration of

2122
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:47,920
them off of

2123
01:03:51,990 --> 01:03:50,240
um the the atlantic coast which is what

2124
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:52,000
the bermuda triangle is so it's like

2125
01:03:54,630 --> 01:03:53,520
it's a no shipping no fly zone you're

2126
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:54,640
just not allowed to go out there there's

2127
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:56,160
too many of them you can't see them

2128
01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:59,440
um then they start showing up on land so

2129
01:04:02,789 --> 01:04:01,440
the uh government's responses around the

2130
01:04:03,670 --> 01:04:02,799
world is they they put fences around

2131
01:04:05,349 --> 01:04:03,680
them they they

2132
01:04:08,150 --> 01:04:05,359
you can't destroy them you they they

2133
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:08,160
can't fill them up they're um

2134
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:09,599
um and more of them are appearing every

2135
01:04:12,470 --> 01:04:11,280
year so they're not i wouldn't say

2136
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:12,480
there's so many portals that there's

2137
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:14,559
like one in every town they're still

2138
01:04:18,309 --> 01:04:15,680
fairly rare

2139
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:18,319
but they're real it's a reality that uh

2140
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:19,839
that people have to accept so

2141
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:21,039
i just want to see what would it be like

2142
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:23,200
in a world where you know you couldn't

2143
01:04:26,549 --> 01:04:25,359
tell your kids that monsters don't exist

2144
01:04:27,670 --> 01:04:26,559
you know they're going to learn about it

2145
01:04:29,589 --> 01:04:27,680
in school when they're old enough you

2146
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:29,599
know it's part of our history now so

2147
01:04:33,029 --> 01:04:31,920
um you're you're still probably it's

2148
01:04:34,630 --> 01:04:33,039
like a shark attack you're still

2149
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:34,640
probably more likely to be hit by

2150
01:04:37,430 --> 01:04:36,000
lightning than you are to ever be killed

2151
01:04:39,029 --> 01:04:37,440
by a supernatural creature

2152
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:39,039
but the reality is the fact is it could

2153
01:04:42,950 --> 01:04:40,960
happen so i just really wanted to have

2154
01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:42,960
this sort of a regular world where

2155
01:04:45,750 --> 01:04:44,160
the only thing that's different is that

2156
01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:45,760
the supernatural exists and we're still

2157
01:04:48,549 --> 01:04:47,359
afraid of it we're not we're not using

2158
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,559
it you know people aren't using magic to

2159
01:04:50,950 --> 01:04:50,240
do their taxes or walk their dogs or

2160
01:04:52,470 --> 01:04:50,960
anything

2161
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:52,480
it's still it's still this menace that's

2162
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:54,240
hovering over their heads so

2163
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:56,000
um one of the characters in in the

2164
01:05:00,069 --> 01:04:57,359
series is a uh

2165
01:05:00,710 --> 01:05:00,079
private investigator named felix wren

2166
01:05:03,190 --> 01:05:00,720
and um

2167
01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:03,200
he just investigates supernatural cases

2168
01:05:05,589 --> 01:05:04,240
it's whatever

2169
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:05,599
all his cases have got some sort of a

2170
01:05:08,069 --> 01:05:07,200
supernatural bent but then there's

2171
01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:08,079
another character

2172
01:05:11,190 --> 01:05:10,400
uh jerry baldwin and he's a real estate

2173
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:11,200
agent

2174
01:05:14,950 --> 01:05:13,280
he sells haunted houses he sells haunted

2175
01:05:16,470 --> 01:05:14,960
property because in a world where ghosts

2176
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:16,480
exist and haunted houses exist someone's

2177
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:18,000
got to sell those houses so

2178
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:19,599
yeah it's almost like the guardian case

2179
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:21,119
though i really tried to find as

2180
01:05:23,910 --> 01:05:22,559
realistic

2181
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:23,920
approach as i could while still keeping

2182
01:05:27,510 --> 01:05:26,240
it fun so um it's like well if these

2183
01:05:28,710 --> 01:05:27,520
houses are so dangerous

2184
01:05:29,910 --> 01:05:28,720
why would he sell them it's like well

2185
01:05:31,670 --> 01:05:29,920
there's definitely some he's not allowed

2186
01:05:33,109 --> 01:05:31,680
to sell the feds don't let himself these

2187
01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:33,119
certain houses they're off the market

2188
01:05:37,190 --> 01:05:34,960
they're purposely left empty

2189
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:37,200
um but other people you're going to tell

2190
01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:38,160
me that if someone

2191
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:40,160
uh that that real there were real

2192
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:41,359
haunted houses

2193
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:42,720
there wouldn't be someone maybe some

2194
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:44,240
rich weirdo collects them like they

2195
01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:45,520
would absolutely yeah

2196
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:48,480
or or they'd be so cheap that people

2197
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:50,400
that can't afford a regular house

2198
01:05:53,430 --> 01:05:51,760
would buy it so they would just deal

2199
01:05:55,029 --> 01:05:53,440
with the bleeding walls or the wrapping

2200
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:55,039
in the middle of the night you know so

2201
01:05:58,950 --> 01:05:56,880
it was just and he just spins it like

2202
01:05:59,670 --> 01:05:58,960
he's he's he's not a he's not a sleazy

2203
01:06:02,870 --> 01:05:59,680
guy

2204
01:06:04,309 --> 01:06:02,880
um he believes in his work he thinks the

2205
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:04,319
supernatural is great

2206
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:05,760
um so he's really trying to find the

2207
01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:07,200
right people for the right home in this

2208
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:08,640
case the right haunted house for the

2209
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:09,280
right home

2210
01:06:13,430 --> 01:06:10,559
it's a certain people that go with it

2211
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:13,440
but his stories are are a bit lighter

2212
01:06:17,270 --> 01:06:15,520
um but that was the idea with the series

2213
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:17,280
that each character

2214
01:06:20,630 --> 01:06:18,720
it's the world that's the recurring

2215
01:06:21,510 --> 01:06:20,640
character um i can tell all these

2216
01:06:22,710 --> 01:06:21,520
different stories i can tell a

2217
01:06:24,150 --> 01:06:22,720
standalone story with none of these

2218
01:06:25,510 --> 01:06:24,160
characters or i can tell a story with

2219
01:06:26,549 --> 01:06:25,520
the real estate guy or i can tell a

2220
01:06:29,349 --> 01:06:26,559
story with

2221
01:06:30,630 --> 01:06:29,359
um the private investigator there's a

2222
01:06:31,990 --> 01:06:30,640
third character who is a

2223
01:06:34,309 --> 01:06:32,000
she's like a federal agent she's sort of

2224
01:06:36,309 --> 01:06:34,319
like a clarice starling meets

2225
01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:36,319
james bond you know because if you've

2226
01:06:40,390 --> 01:06:38,880
got a supernatural crime in this world

2227
01:06:41,750 --> 01:06:40,400
well you're gonna need a new agency you

2228
01:06:43,270 --> 01:06:41,760
know you can't be the fbi you can't be

2229
01:06:45,109 --> 01:06:43,280
the rcmp so they've got

2230
01:06:46,309 --> 01:06:45,119
the paranormal intelligence agency you

2231
01:06:47,670 --> 01:06:46,319
know so it's the pia

2232
01:06:49,829 --> 01:06:47,680
in this world so she's an agent of the

2233
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:49,839
pia and she investigates

2234
01:06:53,829 --> 01:06:52,079
um supernatural crime on a federal level

2235
01:06:56,549 --> 01:06:53,839
so again it's kind of like the x-files

2236
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:56,559
meets james bond so again i'm trying to

2237
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:57,920
make it seem as realistic

2238
01:07:00,549 --> 01:06:59,280
as it would be like if this really

2239
01:07:01,670 --> 01:07:00,559
happened what would be the world's

2240
01:07:02,789 --> 01:07:01,680
responsible with the government's

2241
01:07:04,950 --> 01:07:02,799
response what would

2242
01:07:06,230 --> 01:07:04,960
industry like like what like i've got a

2243
01:07:07,990 --> 01:07:06,240
short story it's like

2244
01:07:09,829 --> 01:07:08,000
it's the fishing industry in the bermuda

2245
01:07:10,309 --> 01:07:09,839
triangle like how dangerous is it you

2246
01:07:12,069 --> 01:07:10,319
know

2247
01:07:13,349 --> 01:07:12,079
um what does it actually look like you

2248
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:13,359
know like it's just

2249
01:07:15,829 --> 01:07:14,480
these are the things where it's just

2250
01:07:17,829 --> 01:07:15,839
you're trying to you're trying to find

2251
01:07:19,750 --> 01:07:17,839
really cool ways to tell stories

2252
01:07:21,109 --> 01:07:19,760
um that are almost believable even

2253
01:07:22,309 --> 01:07:21,119
though they're supernatural i think

2254
01:07:23,829 --> 01:07:22,319
that's one of the reasons why someone

2255
01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:23,839
like stephen king has always done so

2256
01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:24,559
well

2257
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:27,760
is um he's always been able to take

2258
01:07:30,870 --> 01:07:29,839
ordinary people or ordinary things in

2259
01:07:33,190 --> 01:07:30,880
the world and just

2260
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:33,200
tweak them with the supernatural right

2261
01:07:36,150 --> 01:07:34,480
because characters are very believable

2262
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:36,160
the settings are very believable

2263
01:07:39,589 --> 01:07:38,319
and that's why his books are scary if if

2264
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:39,599
you can make their

2265
01:07:43,829 --> 01:07:41,520
your world believable the minute that

2266
01:07:45,829 --> 01:07:43,839
you start to insinuate horrible things

2267
01:07:47,510 --> 01:07:45,839
they also seem believable and that's why

2268
01:07:49,349 --> 01:07:47,520
they're scary that's why they're scary

2269
01:07:50,069 --> 01:07:49,359
if it's so fantastic no one cares it's

2270
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,079
just you're

2271
01:07:53,990 --> 01:07:52,799
you're disconnected but it's like well a

2272
01:07:55,510 --> 01:07:54,000
dog gets rabies because that's a

2273
01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:55,520
horrible thing that happens but what if

2274
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:56,000
it's a

2275
01:08:02,309 --> 01:08:00,000
those dogs exist people like them

2276
01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:02,319
and that's scary so a rabbit dog is

2277
01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:03,039
scary

2278
01:08:07,029 --> 01:08:05,359
a rabid saint bernard is terrifying and

2279
01:08:08,870 --> 01:08:07,039
that's what stephen king understands

2280
01:08:09,990 --> 01:08:08,880
you know so and that's what i hope that

2281
01:08:11,430 --> 01:08:10,000
i've sort of learned from them if

2282
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:11,440
anything you know i mean obviously i'm a

2283
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:12,880
huge fan there's a number of writers

2284
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:14,799
that that i love and i admire

2285
01:08:17,430 --> 01:08:16,239
but uh you know king always sort of

2286
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:17,440
overshadows everything a lot of people

2287
01:08:20,789 --> 01:08:18,480
grow up with him

2288
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:20,799
and for me that was it wasn't just the

2289
01:08:23,669 --> 01:08:22,319
fact that he's famous and that he's a

2290
01:08:25,430 --> 01:08:23,679
he's a really good writer even though he

2291
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:25,440
is for me it was always

2292
01:08:28,630 --> 01:08:27,359
um the believability of his work you

2293
01:08:30,390 --> 01:08:28,640
know it's like it's like well yeah you

2294
01:08:32,149 --> 01:08:30,400
know like if if vampires were going to

2295
01:08:33,510 --> 01:08:32,159
insinuate themselves in a town and they

2296
01:08:35,189 --> 01:08:33,520
could get away with it in some

2297
01:08:36,550 --> 01:08:35,199
like a quiet little new england town

2298
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:36,560
that's what salem's lot would be they

2299
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:37,600
would just take it over

2300
01:08:40,789 --> 01:08:39,040
you know it's just it's just very

2301
01:08:41,749 --> 01:08:40,799
believable i think that's the key to his

2302
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:41,759
success is

2303
01:08:46,070 --> 01:08:43,920
you know it's you know it's uh it's

2304
01:08:47,669 --> 01:08:46,080
supernatural you know it's it's not true

2305
01:08:50,470 --> 01:08:47,679
but there's a party that thinks that if

2306
01:08:52,309 --> 01:08:50,480
it did exist though that's how it would

2307
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:52,319
that's how it would go down you're right

2308
01:08:57,189 --> 01:08:54,159
it's always like one step

2309
01:08:59,030 --> 01:08:57,199
beyond uh what is actually happening

2310
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:59,040
um that sounds awesome man i'm

2311
01:09:01,430 --> 01:09:00,480
definitely gonna have to check out that

2312
01:09:05,590 --> 01:09:01,440
series because

2313
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:05,600
i think again it kind of uh encapsulates

2314
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:07,920
everything you've kind of done in your

2315
01:09:11,669 --> 01:09:09,359
life in terms of

2316
01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:11,679
once being you know at the center of

2317
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:13,279
this ufo event

2318
01:09:17,349 --> 01:09:16,000
and investigating it and there's that

2319
01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:17,359
other part of you

2320
01:09:20,789 --> 01:09:19,520
and the other part of me that goes on

2321
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:20,799
day-to-day

2322
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:22,799
whether it's menial tasks or going to

2323
01:09:27,189 --> 01:09:24,719
work or um you know

2324
01:09:28,870 --> 01:09:27,199
uh doing what you're doing in your

2325
01:09:30,550 --> 01:09:28,880
relationships in your life

2326
01:09:32,149 --> 01:09:30,560
and then there's this other part of your

2327
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:32,159
life where it's like

2328
01:09:35,990 --> 01:09:33,600
this person claimed they were abducted

2329
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:36,000
by aliens so i got to go deal with that

2330
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:38,799
right now instead of you know um how i'm

2331
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:40,799
going to pay the next bill this that

2332
01:09:44,070 --> 01:09:43,040
so it's like these two worlds colliding

2333
01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:44,080
so that's pretty cool

2334
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:46,319
i um like i said i never wrote the book

2335
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:47,600
on guardian i said that doesn't really

2336
01:09:50,309 --> 01:09:49,120
have a final act because

2337
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:50,319
it's not satisfying because it's not

2338
01:09:53,349 --> 01:09:52,080
aliens right it's not even so i mean

2339
01:09:54,709 --> 01:09:53,359
there's no that's why i never wrote the

2340
01:09:57,270 --> 01:09:54,719
guardian book but

2341
01:09:58,149 --> 01:09:57,280
in a fictional way i've definitely i

2342
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:58,159
guess you could say

2343
01:10:01,350 --> 01:09:59,840
taken some things cannibalized some

2344
01:10:02,310 --> 01:10:01,360
stuff from the whole guardian thing and

2345
01:10:04,070 --> 01:10:02,320
thrown it into

2346
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:04,080
one of my uh science fiction books which

2347
01:10:06,550 --> 01:10:04,960
will hopefully be published by it's

2348
01:10:07,910 --> 01:10:06,560
never it's not finished but it was like

2349
01:10:09,990 --> 01:10:07,920
this is too good you know and it was

2350
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:10,000
just like i've got to use it so

2351
01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:11,760
it's it's not it's not literally the

2352
01:10:14,709 --> 01:10:13,440
case but i mean

2353
01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:14,719
um there are definitely components

2354
01:10:17,189 --> 01:10:16,159
anyone that knows the guardian case and

2355
01:10:18,390 --> 01:10:17,199
who would read this would be like oh

2356
01:10:19,110 --> 01:10:18,400
yeah that's guardian you know that's

2357
01:10:20,630 --> 01:10:19,120
that's that's

2358
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:20,640
from the dense mysteries episode because

2359
01:10:25,669 --> 01:10:22,960
why not it's such a great story you know

2360
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:25,679
yeah it is well i guess kind of wrapping

2361
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:26,560
things up ian

2362
01:10:30,070 --> 01:10:28,640
um what do you hope people will take

2363
01:10:33,030 --> 01:10:30,080
away from both ufo

2364
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:33,040
town and uh the guardian case overall

2365
01:10:37,189 --> 01:10:34,880
what's like the one thing you hope

2366
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:37,199
that uh viewers will take and listeners

2367
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:39,760
will take away from all of this

2368
01:10:44,070 --> 01:10:41,920
well i hope first and foremost is that

2369
01:10:45,590 --> 01:10:44,080
anyone who is coming to it because

2370
01:10:47,030 --> 01:10:45,600
they're familiar with the guardian case

2371
01:10:47,990 --> 01:10:47,040
whether it's from the unsolved mysteries

2372
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:48,000
episode or

2373
01:10:52,310 --> 01:10:49,760
or from from just reading about it

2374
01:10:55,430 --> 01:10:52,320
online i hope that they are getting

2375
01:10:56,709 --> 01:10:55,440
um as much of the full story um

2376
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,719
as you can really get with still

2377
01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:58,480
maintaining some of the fun mystery to

2378
01:11:02,470 --> 01:10:59,280
it all

2379
01:11:03,510 --> 01:11:02,480
um but i'm also hoping that they um

2380
01:11:06,149 --> 01:11:03,520
even the people don't know anything

2381
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:06,159
about the guardian case just really

2382
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:08,800
enjoy ufo town for for what it is which

2383
01:11:13,030 --> 01:11:09,520
is just this

2384
01:11:15,910 --> 01:11:13,040
really um quality respectful

2385
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:15,920
examination of of belief and why we

2386
01:11:20,790 --> 01:11:17,600
believe the things that we do

2387
01:11:22,149 --> 01:11:20,800
why mystery is so compelling um and why

2388
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:22,159
we don't always need the answers you

2389
01:11:25,510 --> 01:11:23,600
know it's just um

2390
01:11:27,189 --> 01:11:25,520
it's sometimes it's just nice just to

2391
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:27,199
sort of luxuriate in the fact that

2392
01:11:29,830 --> 01:11:28,000
you're not gonna

2393
01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:29,840
know everything it's and that's okay

2394
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:31,360
it's hard to believe that you know

2395
01:11:34,149 --> 01:11:32,400
because i'm the kind of person who

2396
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:34,159
usually wants to know everything

2397
01:11:37,590 --> 01:11:35,920
but i can tell you man after 30 years

2398
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:37,600
even though i've i'd say like i'm like

2399
01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:40,800
97 98 sure of everything that happened

2400
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:43,120
to my satisfaction there's always going

2401
01:11:47,189 --> 01:11:44,800
to be stuff that you don't know

2402
01:11:48,550 --> 01:11:47,199
and whereas a 16 17 year old kid that

2403
01:11:50,870 --> 01:11:48,560
would have driven me right up the wall

2404
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:50,880
no i'm just like hey that's cool yeah

2405
01:11:56,550 --> 01:11:52,640
i'm good

2406
01:11:58,390 --> 01:11:56,560
and you're right

2407
01:11:59,910 --> 01:11:58,400
there's always that like one percent of

2408
01:12:01,750 --> 01:11:59,920
this ufo

2409
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:01,760
mystery that remains open and that's

2410
01:12:07,510 --> 01:12:04,640
what keeps me going you know 99 of it is

2411
01:12:08,950 --> 01:12:07,520
probably explainable in some prosaic or

2412
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:08,960
even anomalous

2413
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:10,800
way and then there's that one percent

2414
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:13,440
that just keeps people going um

2415
01:12:17,189 --> 01:12:15,360
that's so cool man well i do want to let

2416
01:12:19,110 --> 01:12:17,199
our viewers and listeners know

2417
01:12:21,430 --> 01:12:19,120
i know i have a lot of canadian

2418
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:21,440
listeners and viewers we are on the e1

2419
01:12:25,030 --> 01:12:22,880
podcast network out of

2420
01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:25,040
toronto so um if you do want to watch

2421
01:12:28,950 --> 01:12:26,080
ufo town

2422
01:12:29,270 --> 01:12:28,960
you can stream it for free on the cbc

2423
01:12:31,590 --> 01:12:29,280
gem

2424
01:12:33,030 --> 01:12:31,600
streaming service so please go check

2425
01:12:35,669 --> 01:12:33,040
that out right after this

2426
01:12:37,750 --> 01:12:35,679
if you haven't already but um ian in

2427
01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:37,760
terms of everything you're up to brother

2428
01:12:42,070 --> 01:12:40,000
where can we find all of your work and

2429
01:12:44,310 --> 01:12:42,080
um and keep continuing

2430
01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:44,320
to follow this journey you're taking man

2431
01:12:47,189 --> 01:12:45,600
yeah i mean i'm

2432
01:12:49,270 --> 01:12:47,199
i'm active on all the social media

2433
01:12:52,709 --> 01:12:49,280
channels you know look me up on facebook

2434
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:52,719
or instagram twitter uh one more shadow

2435
01:12:56,950 --> 01:12:53,520
is my handle

2436
01:12:59,110 --> 01:12:56,960
most places um i have my writing website

2437
01:13:01,590 --> 01:12:59,120
which is ian rogers.ca

2438
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:01,600
uh i'm pretty much the most googlable

2439
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:02,560
ian rogers there's

2440
01:13:05,669 --> 01:13:04,080
there's a there's an australian chess

2441
01:13:07,110 --> 01:13:05,679
master who's named museum writer so it's

2442
01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:07,120
me and him we're both battling for

2443
01:13:10,310 --> 01:13:09,040
dominance of google right now so

2444
01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:10,320
but yeah if you google me you pretty

2445
01:13:13,030 --> 01:13:12,400
much find me uh everywhere out there and

2446
01:13:17,189 --> 01:13:13,040
uh

2447
01:13:19,110 --> 01:13:17,199
about ufo town or guardian

2448
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:19,120
or or my writing i've got all kinds of

2449
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:20,880
stuff that's available to free for free

2450
01:13:24,709 --> 01:13:23,120
to read for free online if you want to

2451
01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:24,719
check out some of my stuff

2452
01:13:28,709 --> 01:13:27,520
and uh yeah i mean uh usually i've got

2453
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:28,719
some good writing news coming there's

2454
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:30,400
lots of stuff happening this year that i

2455
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:32,400
hope to report on um

2456
01:13:35,350 --> 01:13:34,080
ufo town is something i'm just really

2457
01:13:37,030 --> 01:13:35,360
really proud of and it's just the tip of

2458
01:13:37,590 --> 01:13:37,040
the iceberg lots of cool stuff coming so

2459
01:13:38,790 --> 01:13:37,600
uh yeah

2460
01:13:40,950 --> 01:13:38,800
definitely hope people will stay in

2461
01:13:43,750 --> 01:13:40,960
touch awesome well

2462
01:13:45,669 --> 01:13:43,760
i gotta thank you for kind of um

2463
01:13:48,070 --> 01:13:45,679
demystifying a lot of this

2464
01:13:50,070 --> 01:13:48,080
for us tonight man i think we needed it

2465
01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:50,080
um i hope people will check out the doc

2466
01:13:53,350 --> 01:13:51,920
check out all your work and of course i

2467
01:13:54,470 --> 01:13:53,360
gotta thank you for coming on somewhere

2468
01:14:07,150 --> 01:13:54,480
in the skies tonight